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A Database of Fugitive Slave Ads Reveals Thousands of Untold Stories (2018)

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Re: A Database of Fugitive Slave Ads Reveals Thousands of Untold Stories (2018)

#11
post #8
post #3

Makes one reflect on how much do we take for granted when it comes to ethics. I remember a (googleable) exchange of letters between the former owner and an ex-slave. The former was genuinely hurt by slave's betrayal and urged them to go back. There were people for whom owning other people was so normalized that they were actually angry at their former slaves. I wonder if any of our current practices will be viewed as…

„Wage slavery“ and „factory farming“ (aka as concentration camps for other sentient beings) will be viewed unkindly by future generations. Actually, some if us already view it as barbaric but it will need more of us to finally do away with them.

If your conclusion is “well obviously, the people of the future will share my ethics” then you’re missing the point of the exercise.

The point of the exercise is humility — to think about how people in the future might think your ethics are wrong and evil — not arrogance.

Re: A Database of Fugitive Slave Ads Reveals Thousands of Untold Stories (2018)

#13
post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One of the biggest lies I never believed is that school is for education. It is for many things but education (not indoctrination or brainwashing) is not one if them. Thankfully I realized this very early.

Is there a conspiracy of the local school board?

Yes, of course. It's visible in many subtle ways. One example is uniforms. Another is how "social studies" now stands where "history" once stood. Nearly 20% of high school graduates are illiterate. A highs school diploma signals something, but it's not being educated.

Some amount of education does occur, but it's incidental to social indoctrination, keeping parents' wages high by forcing kids out of the job market, etc.

Re: A Database of Fugitive Slave Ads Reveals Thousands of Untold Stories (2018)

#14
post #11
post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

„Wage slavery“ and „factory farming“ (aka as concentration camps for other sentient beings) will be viewed unkindly by future generations. Actually, some if us already view it as barbaric but it will need more of us to finally do away with them.

If your conclusion is “well obviously, the people of the future will share my ethics” then you’re missing the point of the exercise. The point of the exercise is humility — to think about how people in the future might think your ethics are wrong and evil — not arrogance.

The acceptance of slavery was not universal. Back then there were already people, abolitionists, striving to end slavery. So looking at what small but vocal groups protest now can give a hint at what future people could find wrong or evil.

It's not at all arrogant to think future people will share my ethics, just like abolitionists were not arrogant to hope for a world without slavery. Arrogance would be believing they'd share all of your ethics, and just as well I'm sure most abolitionists were still very racist, sexist, homophobic, ...

Re: A Database of Fugitive Slave Ads Reveals Thousands of Untold Stories (2018)

#15
post #9
post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We treat children like that. Largely for the economic value they can provide by making them spend most of their awake life at school. If school wasn't needed, it would look barbaric.

One of the biggest lies I never believed is that school is for education. It is for many things but education (not indoctrination or brainwashing) is not one if them. Thankfully I realized this very early.

I always say it as something quite benign: a state-sponsored daycare. Where else would we put our kids if not for school?

Re: A Database of Fugitive Slave Ads Reveals Thousands of Untold Stories (2018)

#17
post #11
post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

„Wage slavery“ and „factory farming“ (aka as concentration camps for other sentient beings) will be viewed unkindly by future generations. Actually, some if us already view it as barbaric but it will need more of us to finally do away with them.

If your conclusion is “well obviously, the people of the future will share my ethics” then you’re missing the point of the exercise. The point of the exercise is humility — to think about how people in the future might think your ethics are wrong and evil — not arrogance.

Ethic shifts don't come out of the blue; they start as a growing sentiment within a population, which at some point (whether through growth or things being shaken up by e.g. war) reaches critical mass.

Re: A Database of Fugitive Slave Ads Reveals Thousands of Untold Stories (2018)

#18
post #3

Makes one reflect on how much do we take for granted when it comes to ethics. I remember a (googleable) exchange of letters between the former owner and an ex-slave. The former was genuinely hurt by slave's betrayal and urged them to go back. There were people for whom owning other people was so normalized that they were actually angry at their former slaves. I wonder if any of our current practices will be viewed as…

Well... The more radical political philosophies (at any given time) make lots of equivalences (ethical and others) between slavery & other stuff. Wage labour today, and obviously older institutions like tenancy, serfdom, indentured labour, etc. Even many free thinking, but politically mainstream people (eg t cowen) make non-ethical comparisons between slavery and employment.

It's easier to agree with if you widen your concept of slavery, beyond the specific institution of African slavery in the US... during the later years. That system was so brutal and unethical by slavery standards. So, it's hard to compare to.

Before, during & after chattel slavery, the Americas had other systems of "slavery." Most were not that* brutal, but still slavery.

Indentured service was huge, at a certain point. Share croppers. These people probably outnumbered free employees in many times and places.

Serfs were not free to go. Monks were arguably enslaved by abbots. Artisans sometimes bought apprentices as children.

In western Europe, the "tenant" concept that replaced serfdom was often similar to sharecropping.. arguably also a system of slavery.

We know of ancient examples: Greek, Roman, Jewish, Persian, Babylonian... Ancient law codes (including the bible) dedicated a lot of ink to slavery laws. Slaver rights, slave rights, manumission, and such. A Greek slave could be wealthy, and that should help broaden the concept.

Marxism sees slavery in class terms. Ie it's just a name to describe the lowest class, and wage labour is a descendant of slavery.

There are even many modern-economy examples where employers have a say in an employee's marriage or reproductive choices. That arguably is slavery-like.

Anyway... once you widen the concept of slavery with multiple examples that you easily accept as "obviously slavery*, drawing analogies to other institutions is easy.

Indenture, for example, exists, today, in practice, widely... in many forms. Invariably, the "slavers" think it's ethically sound.

Re: A Database of Fugitive Slave Ads Reveals Thousands of Untold Stories (2018)

#19
post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If your conclusion is “well obviously, the people of the future will share my ethics” then you’re missing the point of the exercise. The point of the exercise is humility — to think about how people in the future might think your ethics are wrong and evil — not arrogance.

Ethic shifts don't come out of the blue; they start as a growing sentiment within a population, which at some point (whether through growth or things being shaken up by e.g. war) reaches critical mass.

Sure but that's no reason to expect yourself in specific to be on the right side of the shift.

Re: A Database of Fugitive Slave Ads Reveals Thousands of Untold Stories (2018)

#20
post #5
post #3

Makes one reflect on how much do we take for granted when it comes to ethics. I remember a (googleable) exchange of letters between the former owner and an ex-slave. The former was genuinely hurt by slave's betrayal and urged them to go back. There were people for whom owning other people was so normalized that they were actually angry at their former slaves. I wonder if any of our current practices will be viewed as…

I think the way we treat animals today will be viewed as very barbaric within a generation or two. We are everyday learning more about how much intelligence and consciousness something like cows posses.

Have you lived on a farm? Cows are the dumbest creatures, and they taste wonderful.
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