India builds detention camps for up to 1.9M people not on citizens register • Hacker News Board

Re: India builds detention camps for up to 1.9M people not on citizens register

#141

Post by NotSammyHagar » Wed, Dec 18, 2019, 9:16 AM UTC

dragonsh wrote: post #60

gagorder wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Supreme court scheduled the next hearing on 22 Jan. So this is going the same route as hearing on 370.

I don't understand Indian system so probably my comment should be taken with grain of salt. But this shows that supreme court is not independent enough to preserve attack on democracy even when a fundamental tenet of the constitution is attacked, when the attack is coming from the very people who were suppose to safeguard it i.e. current government. So although there is a separation of powers in a democratic system,…

I used to believe the US Supreme court could be a bulwark against one party control, but the Republicans now admit (McConnel) that they stole a spot from Democrats and have been court packing since they got a republican president. I no longer so naive about courts in the US. We've basically lost judicial independence in only 3 years. 3 years is all it took!

Re: India builds detention camps for up to 1.9M people not on citizens register

#142

Post by nautical » Wed, Dec 18, 2019, 9:32 AM UTC

NotSammyHagar wrote: post #140

nilsocket wrote: post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As clearly said before, If one is living in India for more than 11 years, under CAB they will be considered as Indian citizens.

It seems to be pretty much aimed at reducing muslim citizenship, because of how it treats people from different religions and the clear preference for hindu in the government. Do you any response for that? It seems analogous to the us muslim ban.

If a section of society "A" that is oppressed by "B" is being helped by government how is that illogical ? For some reason if that section "A" are Hindus suddenly people claim that to be anti-muslim. Hindus in neighboring counties have no place to go, government of India made that simpler for them to get citizenship because of bad behavior of prominent religions in those counties.

Re: India builds detention camps for up to 1.9M people not on citizens register

#143

Post by Al-Khwarizmi » Wed, Dec 18, 2019, 9:32 AM UTC

goombastic wrote: post #12

vageli wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It is not the citizen's responsibility to prove he is a citizen, it is the government's responsibility to prove that he isn't. > Guilty until proven innocent? How is that fair? By this rationale, couldn't one claim citizenship to any country? When I arrive at a foreign border I don't say, "Allow me entry, I am a citizen, prove otherwise." I understand that further from the border this encroachment is less justified…

You cant just wake up one day and suddenly proclaim everyone a non citizen. In that case this is a non-government having been elected by non-citizens! Right?

Naive comment as I don't know much about India... but I suppose people that were able to participate in the elections did so because they already have some form of ID and are in a census, so they would remain citizens?

Re: India builds detention camps for up to 1.9M people not on citizens register

#144

Post by nl » Wed, Dec 18, 2019, 9:35 AM UTC

quantummkv wrote: post #123

goombastic wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

It's not a straight up Nazi policy. Can't we have a good faith approach and see. It what you are saying does happens then we can revolt. And we would. But would it bad to if only the good happens? What's wrong with a bit of optimism?

Optimism about religious discrimination of any type seems like a bad thing.

Re: India builds detention camps for up to 1.9M people not on citizens register

#145

Post by ben_w » Wed, Dec 18, 2019, 9:36 AM UTC

nilsocket wrote: post #137

vinni2 wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem is many have been living for generations without any documentation. How are they supposed to prove?

As clearly said before, If one is living in India for more than 11 years, under CAB they will be considered as Indian citizens.

There are examples of people living in the UK for long enough to be entitled to British citizenship, yet denied it and threatened with deportation because they cannot prove it.

I do not know if that is a reasonable fear in this case because I do not know the general social attitudes in India right now, but how would you relax someone who is scared the same may happen again?

Re: India builds detention camps for up to 1.9M people not on citizens register

#146

Post by sbmthakur » Wed, Dec 18, 2019, 9:39 AM UTC

random314 wrote: post #136

nilsocket wrote: post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your statement goes completely against Indian election results. Re-electing somebody with such a huge majority clearly states, people of India are happy with present government. Don't put up your propaganda as voice Indians. Being an Indian, I'm very happy with BJP, and I'm not Hindu.

> and I'm not Hindu. Must be a Hindu atheist

Your point being? The person could be a Christian, Parsi, Jain, Buddhist etc. BJP has followers from all these religions.

Re: India builds detention camps for up to 1.9M people not on citizens register

#147

Post by Vinnl » Wed, Dec 18, 2019, 9:41 AM UTC

nilsocket wrote: post #92

For all the messy comments against Indian government, To make things clear. CAB (Citizenship Amendment Bill) made for illegal migrants from Pakistan, Afghanistan, Bangladesh (Three Islamic countries). Who is an illegal migrant: Anybody who came to India after 1971 from these countries. To whom does this rule apply: Illegal migrants who entered India till 2014. What does it say: If one came to India before 2014 and st…

> NRC (National Register for Citizens) is aimed at moving illegal immigrants to detention camps or they are free to leave to there actual country.

Hmm, so when someone does not have any citizen documents of any country, what is "their actual country"? Or would they in practice be destined for the camps?

Re: India builds detention camps for up to 1.9M people not on citizens register

#148

Post by dragonsh » Wed, Dec 18, 2019, 9:46 AM UTC

nilsocket wrote: post #92

For all the messy comments against Indian government, To make things clear. CAB (Citizenship Amendment Bill) made for illegal migrants from Pakistan, Afghanistan, Bangladesh (Three Islamic countries). Who is an illegal migrant: Anybody who came to India after 1971 from these countries. To whom does this rule apply: Illegal migrants who entered India till 2014. What does it say: If one came to India before 2014 and st…

Why you try to repeat the Indian government propaganda. Just make one correction first Bangladesh is a secular nation like India with Muslim majority. This is the wisdom and adherence to secularism of India’s administration during that time (not sure but it was Indira Gandhi at that time, who insisted that Bangladesh should be a secular country like India, after it was freed by Indian military). This was overturned by ordinances for a short while but than those ordinances were termed illegal by Sheikh Hasina. So before claiming about Bangladesh as Islamic country get your facts correct, as it stands for more than a decade it’s a secular country.

A persecuted person is persecuted irrespective of religion. CAA could have made it clear keeping India’s secular fabric intact, but it didn’t . As the current administration is bent upon making India a religious dictatorship, this is used as backdoor for that idea. NRC+CAA combined is like a rocket and a war head, making it a missile to launch an all out attack to weed out Muslims from India. So the intentions were nefarious with this act.

This has been declared repeatedly by current Indian government many times that they will conduct NRC nationwide, so the fears of Muslims are genuine. May be it will be nice if you read the bill yourself and see if they used the term Muslim anywhere in it.

Re: India builds detention camps for up to 1.9M people not on citizens register

#149

Post by tasogare » Wed, Dec 18, 2019, 9:46 AM UTC

> why base it on religion?

Because religion matters. In this case, islam has a millenarian, worldwide record of massacring non-muslims so it doesn’t seem far fetched to impose boundaries based on this criterion. Also the Pakistan+Bangladesh/India partition was made on this religious clivage, so muslims have two others countries to choose from.

As someone who almost lost a friend in a jihadist terror attack, I’m really upset when Westerners purposely turn blind on the muslim civilization misdeeds. If almost every other civilization hate them it’s for reasons rooted historically (aggressive expansionism in Middle-East, India and Europe) and killing of innocents people that happen every day around the world because they don’t believe in the muslim god.

Re: India builds detention camps for up to 1.9M people not on citizens register

#150

Post by sbmthakur » Wed, Dec 18, 2019, 9:49 AM UTC

mlnj wrote: post #133

sbmthakur wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How can Muslims be religiously persecuted in countries with Islam as their state religion? Note that the amendment only deals with only religious persecution. Other forms of persecution, which could be sectarian, linguistic, ethnic, political etc. are not covered by the amendment.

If a Muslim wishes to reject the teachings of Islam and live a life free of Islam, how would India help them? Ex-Muslims are murdered all the time in Islamic countries. The persecution is religious and the person is of a Muslim origin. Go on.

> If a Muslim wishes to reject the teachings of Islam and live a life free of Islam,

Interesting scenario. Doesn't that make the person an atheist? The constitution of India doesn't recognize them, unfortunately. I would push for their inclusion once the constitution recognizes atheism.