I once attended a talk by Carl Sagan where, during the question-answer session, someone mentioned how much we could learn from "primitive societies". Sagan replied that we should not glorify such lives. In addition to other things, he said that in 1900 the average life span in civilized countries was 35. As artificial and commercialized as we have become, technology has improved our lives.
Aerial footage of uncontacted Amazon tribe
211–220 of 378 posts
Re: Aerial footage of uncontacted Amazon tribe
#212Reminds me of "Guns, Germs, and Steel". I've started reading it a few weeks ago, following recommendations on another HN thread. Great book so far.
Part of the book focuses on diseases, and how epidemic diseases only spread in large populations. Problem appears when small tribes with no immunization are exposed to these "common" diseases...
Re: Aerial footage of uncontacted Amazon tribe
#213Earlier quoted context omitted.
I wasn't the one making the argument that these people are experiencing misery/suffering. Misery and suffering is no more objective than happiness and satisfaction. I would argue that both of these things are objective and can be observed in the brain and well as inferred from other criteria. >No, they do not. Yes, they do. We can go back and forth like this all day or you can make a real argument. Read SEX AT DAWN a…
You're the one who made the specific assertion; it's up to you to deliver the citation. "Read book X" isn't sufficient.
>it's up to you to deliver the citation. "Read book X" isn't sufficient.
What do you think a citation is?
Re: Aerial footage of uncontacted Amazon tribe
#214Anyone else feel a little guilty just watching it?
Re: Aerial footage of uncontacted Amazon tribe
#215Earlier quoted context omitted.
What about the missionaries who stopped indigenous peoples' crazy blood soaked ways and widespread human sacrifice rituals? The Aztecs in particular were quite psycho. With the daily stories of decapitated bodies and mass slayings in connection with the drug cartels in Mexico, sometimes a wonder about the cultural link back to the Aztec ways.
The scope of human sacrifice was largely exaggerated. The book 1491, by Charles C. Mann, puts the amount of people sacrificed per year by the Aztecs at 3000-4000, out of around 30 million people. He compares that to England, which executed 75000 people between 1530 and 1630. England had about 1/10th the population of the Aztecs, and if it had the same, it would have been executing 7500 people each year, around double…
Yes but those executions weren't a ridiculous attempt to appease some "sun god" - many of the those executed in England were witches.
As to the comment above - are you suggesting the Spanish deliberately spread diseases? It seems a little unfair to accuse the Spanish invaders of bio-warfare.
Re: Aerial footage of uncontacted Amazon tribe
#216You know that Golden Rule?" Not the one that VCs quote, but the one that goes "Do unto others as you would have others do unto you?" We should think about that when we choose how to deal with uncontacted tribes. It may be that one day another intelligence will need to decide how to deal with us, and on that day I hope we can say, "Yes, we used to have a habit of massacring technologically inferior peoples we encounte…
We should give them access to technology and to our way of life. Our way of life is better. Preserving their backwards culture so they can continue lives of misery and suffering is just as disgusting as the Prime Directive. Help is exactly what I would want from advanced alien visitors. I don't want them to respect my culture just because it is mine; I want something better for myself, not cultural relativism. There…
Let them decide for themselves. Consider those who chose to explore, chose to leave their home village, chose to travel across continents. The members of that tribe who want to know more will explore if/when they decide to do so, and only then should they discover what worlds lie outside of theirs, not by force by us.
Perhaps an advanced civilization would think the same. They have seen us go to the moon and send probes into space, and hopefully this would be sufficient for them to understand that we too, wish to explore and are ready for more knowledge.
Re: Aerial footage of uncontacted Amazon tribe
#217As the BBC reports, the advocacy group that is promoting these images acknowledges that the persons shown have steel machetes, which must be trade goods. So to call them "uncontacted" is stretching a point.
Re: Aerial footage of uncontacted Amazon tribe
#218Earlier quoted context omitted.
Yes. And not every kind of discrimination or restriction is wrong. We must not contact them, unless they want to contact us. We cannot be certain of the impact of our presence to their minds. Just as we can't be certain (no, we can't) of the impact of an alien presence in our planet.
It makes you wonder what they were thinking when they saw the plane flying around over their heads. In almost every shot of the tribe, they were all standing and staring. I doubt it is the first time they have seen some sort of modern technology, but it certainly isn't common. Modern man is taking away their land to oil drilling and logging. Personally, I think we should treat it as tribal leaders once did. We are th…
It sounds like they would have seen planes many times as this guy has been following them for 20 years. It would be interesting how they perceive the planes, they may see them as some kind of god watching over them.
Re: Aerial footage of uncontacted Amazon tribe
#219Earlier quoted context omitted.
I really hope you are kidding. If not this is so typical of the american way of thinking. Yes, we are so superior lets convert them all to our [insert culture, religion etc...]. What is so bad about leaving them alone? I would bet they are much happer than the majority of the FB and Twitter obsessed narcissist that I run into every day. While we are at it lets make sure they all become good christians too because any…
"I would bet they are much happer than the majority of the FB and Twitter obsessed narcissist that I run into every day." Hi, I am an obsessed FB and Twitter narcissist, and I'm proud of it. I'm also happy about having access to the Western medicine, which, while not the only one, and not perfects, seems to be the only one that consistently works. And you are not talking about giving them a "right". You are talking a…
Keep in mind that most of our thoughts about what is good have been shaped by the society we were raised in. If you were born and had lived your entire life in the rain forests of South America, you almost certainly wouldn't feel the same way.
Their very definition of comfort might be different from yours. Keep in mind that many people in more advanced countries prefer heat and humidity, sleeping on bare floors to soft mattresses, and many other things that many other people would consider odd.
Our culture is about change, many cultures are about tradition. Change is not inherently good.
Re: Aerial footage of uncontacted Amazon tribe
#220To everyone saying that they should be given the opportunity to join our civilization, it's not like they have a choice. They'll die if they get the common cold or flu or at the very least come close to death.
And how do we know that our civilization is "better" for them? It's not like they could become incorporated into our society anyway (not the current generation). Contacting and converting them is more an act of self-righteousness than anything else.