Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

India builds detention camps for up to 1.9M people not on citizens register

independent.co.uk

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

31–40 of 340 posts

Re: India builds detention camps for up to 1.9M people not on citizens register

#31

Post by smt1 »

routerhash wrote: post #13
goombastic wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, in every other place in the world, the government doesn't wake up one day and ask citizens to prove they are Citizens. This is what happens if you elect bombastic incapable governments. The government doesn't realize that by their own logic they aren't elected by citizens anymore. By their own logic, they need to hold elections again I guess.

This is not a recent thing. Read about Assam Accord of 1985 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Assam_Accord The protests in eastern part of India is to uphold this accord. The current government has diluted the accord to give citizenship to these illegal immigrants(excluding Muslims, LTTE, etc) with the CAB bill.

That's like one set of protests. The situation in that part of India has always been way more complicated than that: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Insurgency_in_Northeast_India

Re: India builds detention camps for up to 1.9M people not on citizens register

#32

Post by mlnj »

routerhash wrote: post #21
mlnj wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, the `stripped of citizenship` parts come in later with the NRC (National Register of Citizens). https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/news/et-explains/is-a-p... Anyone who is not able to prove their citizenship will naturally be declared illegal immigrant and then have an option to apply for citizenship depending on their religion. This applies to anyone who IS NOT a Muslim. Millions of poor and illiterate people…

With NCR everyone will have to prove citizenship(probably, govt hasn't given any clarification regarding this) regardless of the religion. CAB bill doesn't immediately give citizenship to non Muslims in India. It specifically states that its for people from those three countries. The people who is living in India who is not from these countries regardless of religion will be declared illegal immigrant(again, not clar…

> The people who is living in India who is not from these countries regardless of religion will be declared illegal immigrant(again, not clarified)

This essentially is 'stripping citizenship`.

The government is essentially saying this: "We are not doing wrong right now. So bear with us. After CAB debacle is done, NRC comes in and the government will again say: "We are not doing anything wrong right now too. You just have to follow the laws already passed and PROVE YOUR CITIZENSHIP"

Re: India builds detention camps for up to 1.9M people not on citizens register

#34

Post by [deleted] »

smt1 wrote: post #31
routerhash wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is not a recent thing. Read about Assam Accord of 1985 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Assam_Accord The protests in eastern part of India is to uphold this accord. The current government has diluted the accord to give citizenship to these illegal immigrants(excluding Muslims, LTTE, etc) with the CAB bill.

That's like one set of protests. The situation in that part of India has always been way more complicated than that: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Insurgency_in_Northeast_India

[deleted]

Re: India builds detention camps for up to 1.9M people not on citizens register

#35

Post by gagorder »

routerhash wrote: post #21
mlnj wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, the `stripped of citizenship` parts come in later with the NRC (National Register of Citizens). https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/news/et-explains/is-a-p... Anyone who is not able to prove their citizenship will naturally be declared illegal immigrant and then have an option to apply for citizenship depending on their religion. This applies to anyone who IS NOT a Muslim. Millions of poor and illiterate people…

With NCR everyone will have to prove citizenship(probably, govt hasn't given any clarification regarding this) regardless of the religion. CAB bill doesn't immediately give citizenship to non Muslims in India. It specifically states that its for people from those three countries. The people who is living in India who is not from these countries regardless of religion will be declared illegal immigrant(again, not clar…

> With NCR everyone will have to prove citizenship Why?

Why do I need to prove my citizenship at the whim and fancy of government. What is the purpose of this exercise? This exercise in a small state of Assam cost government coffers around 2000 crores. Add to this the cost citizens had to bear in gathering documentary proofs of their forefathers from land revenue offices, the affidavits, court and legal fees, the time and energy spent and the fear of being thrown into a detention centre - a no mans land.

Is this all normal?

Re: India builds detention camps for up to 1.9M people not on citizens register

#36

Post by mlnj »

gagorder wrote: post #35
routerhash wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

With NCR everyone will have to prove citizenship(probably, govt hasn't given any clarification regarding this) regardless of the religion. CAB bill doesn't immediately give citizenship to non Muslims in India. It specifically states that its for people from those three countries. The people who is living in India who is not from these countries regardless of religion will be declared illegal immigrant(again, not clar…

> With NCR everyone will have to prove citizenship Why? Why do I need to prove my citizenship at the whim and fancy of government. What is the purpose of this exercise? This exercise in a small state of Assam cost government coffers around 2000 crores. Add to this the cost citizens had to bear in gathering documentary proofs of their forefathers from land revenue offices, the affidavits, court and legal fees, the tim…

This is all a ploy to gather power at the Center and the government's reaction to the protests has been testimony to that. Shutting down the Internet, jailing opposition leaders, declaring college students as terrorists and accusing them of sedition for protesting the government has been a constant theme for the last 2 terms for the Center. A Police State is the vision for this current government.

Re: India builds detention camps for up to 1.9M people not on citizens register

#37

Post by smt1 »

gagorder wrote: post #25
routerhash wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is not a recent thing. Read about Assam Accord of 1985 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Assam_Accord The protests in eastern part of India is to uphold this accord. The current government has diluted the accord to give citizenship to these illegal immigrants(excluding Muslims, LTTE, etc) with the CAB bill.

For Assamese the 'outsiders' are anyone from not Assam. It means the citizens from other parts of India themselves like from Bengal, Bihar

Very much true, and there is certainly a lot of historical baggage there. Also, in earlier times, administratively, Assam itself was much larger before many insurgencies caused the state to be split up, and before that, Bengal was much larger (before the British split it up): https://southasiablog.wordpress.com/2014/01/23/how-did-parti...

Re: India builds detention camps for up to 1.9M people not on citizens register

#38

Post by smt1 »

pm90 wrote: post #18

This is extremely bad but also completely expected. Concrete promises of economic growth are hard to deliver on, so the Politicians will focus on inciting religious differences instead.

Pretty much true. Also very sad considering the history of communal violence in south asia, which had trended towards getting better rather than worse in more recent decades.

Re: India builds detention camps for up to 1.9M people not on citizens register

#39

Post by mlnj »

gagorder wrote: post #25
routerhash wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is not a recent thing. Read about Assam Accord of 1985 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Assam_Accord The protests in eastern part of India is to uphold this accord. The current government has diluted the accord to give citizenship to these illegal immigrants(excluding Muslims, LTTE, etc) with the CAB bill.

For Assamese the 'outsiders' are anyone from not Assam. It means the citizens from other parts of India themselves like from Bengal, Bihar

Most of the protesters that were interviewed had the demand for a better economy, job opportunities for the youth and better infrastructure. It's less about them vs us, but for a better state of affairs for everyone. Because none of that is available and the government is now giving away citizenship to anyone coming in, the economy will take much more strained than before and things will be difficult for everyone.

Re: India builds detention camps for up to 1.9M people not on citizens register

#40

Post by paulddraper »

PhasmaFelis wrote: post #23
vageli wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It is not the citizen's responsibility to prove he is a citizen, it is the government's responsibility to prove that he isn't. > Guilty until proven innocent? How is that fair? By this rationale, couldn't one claim citizenship to any country? When I arrive at a foreign border I don't say, "Allow me entry, I am a citizen, prove otherwise." I understand that further from the border this encroachment is less justified…

Expecting citizens to produce proof of their right to exist at a moment's notice is a famous signifier of a police state. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Your_papers,_please If you have a specific reason to suspect and investigate an individual, that's a different matter.

> at a moment's notice

That's not a requirement in this case.

Post reply on HN