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India builds detention camps for up to 1.9M people not on citizens register

independent.co.uk

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Re: India builds detention camps for up to 1.9M people not on citizens register

#21

Post by routerhash »

mlnj wrote: post #16
routerhash wrote: post #4

This is not a case of `stripped of citizenship`. India just built detention camps for illegal immigrants in the country. I think every country in the world does this to illegal immigrants (and later deported). The protests that are happening in the eastern part of India is against giving citizenship to illegal immigrants.

Yes, the `stripped of citizenship` parts come in later with the NRC (National Register of Citizens). https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/news/et-explains/is-a-p... Anyone who is not able to prove their citizenship will naturally be declared illegal immigrant and then have an option to apply for citizenship depending on their religion. This applies to anyone who IS NOT a Muslim. Millions of poor and illiterate people…

With NCR everyone will have to prove citizenship(probably, govt hasn't given any clarification regarding this) regardless of the religion. CAB bill doesn't immediately give citizenship to non Muslims in India. It specifically states that its for people from those three countries. The people who is living in India who is not from these countries regardless of religion will be declared illegal immigrant(again, not clarified)

Re: India builds detention camps for up to 1.9M people not on citizens register

#22

Post by mlnj »

gagorder wrote: post #19
reactspa wrote: post #2

1. Nobody was stripped of citizenship. They couldn't prove they had it in the first place. 2. You won't learn this from the media's narrative about it, but: the reason why most protestors are protesting the Citizenship Amendment is not because muslim refugees (from Pak., Bangla. and Afghan.) are excluded, but because everyone else (non-muslim refugees [i.e. persecuted religious minorities from these officially "Islam…

Regarding 1 - the government now wants to repeat Assam NRC exercise all over the country. Why? Why do we need to prove our citizenship now all of a sudden? Regarding 2 - the government handpicked only those countries which have Islam as state religion, and ignored others like Sri Lanka, Myanmar, Nepal, Bhutan and China. The largest refugee population in India are Sri Lankan Hindu Tamils living for more than 30 years…

This is all drama to keep the public distracted from the real issues like a crumbling economy, deteriorating law and order, budget shortfalls in almost all sectors. This has been a recurring play BJP playbook seen throughout the last 6 years.

Re: India builds detention camps for up to 1.9M people not on citizens register

#23

Post by PhasmaFelis »

vageli wrote: post #11
goombastic wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is not the citizen's responsibility to prove he is a citizen, it is the government's responsibility to prove that he isn't. Guilty until proven innocent? How is that fair?

> It is not the citizen's responsibility to prove he is a citizen, it is the government's responsibility to prove that he isn't. > Guilty until proven innocent? How is that fair? By this rationale, couldn't one claim citizenship to any country? When I arrive at a foreign border I don't say, "Allow me entry, I am a citizen, prove otherwise." I understand that further from the border this encroachment is less justified…

Expecting citizens to produce proof of their right to exist at a moment's notice is a famous signifier of a police state. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Your_papers,_please

If you have a specific reason to suspect and investigate an individual, that's a different matter.

Re: India builds detention camps for up to 1.9M people not on citizens register

#24

Post by smt1 »

routerhash wrote: post #4

This is not a case of `stripped of citizenship`. India just built detention camps for illegal immigrants in the country. I think every country in the world does this to illegal immigrants (and later deported). The protests that are happening in the eastern part of India is against giving citizenship to illegal immigrants.

It's not that simple; in that part of India (the northeast), there is all sorts of dynamics between different ethnic AND religious groups. The Assamese versus the Bengali vs many tribal groups who speak various Tibeto-Burmese languages. Then there is various religions. Hindus, Muslims, tribal animists, various Christian groups, etc. Between India and most of Bangladesh there isn't much of a natural border. There has been en masse migration after 1947, 1971, and more recently.

The BBC had a good story about this recently: https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-india-50757093

Re: India builds detention camps for up to 1.9M people not on citizens register

#25

Post by gagorder »

routerhash wrote: post #13
goombastic wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, in every other place in the world, the government doesn't wake up one day and ask citizens to prove they are Citizens. This is what happens if you elect bombastic incapable governments. The government doesn't realize that by their own logic they aren't elected by citizens anymore. By their own logic, they need to hold elections again I guess.

This is not a recent thing. Read about Assam Accord of 1985 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Assam_Accord The protests in eastern part of India is to uphold this accord. The current government has diluted the accord to give citizenship to these illegal immigrants(excluding Muslims, LTTE, etc) with the CAB bill.

For Assamese the 'outsiders' are anyone from not Assam. It means the citizens from other parts of India themselves like from Bengal, Bihar

Re: India builds detention camps for up to 1.9M people not on citizens register

#26

Post by webartisan »

This is especially disappointing considering the time, legal and administrative effort and money will be spent on trialing and detention of alleged non-citizens.

For a government which has attained a historical majority for the second time, just imagine the impact they can have if they focussed this energy on improving economic and human-life indicators instead. India still ranks 103 on the world hunger index, even below its less developed neighbour – Pakistan.

I hope they don't squander this majority away, but I fear they will.

Re: India builds detention camps for up to 1.9M people not on citizens register

#27

Post by lastpingstandin »

routerhash wrote: post #4

This is not a case of `stripped of citizenship`. India just built detention camps for illegal immigrants in the country. I think every country in the world does this to illegal immigrants (and later deported). The protests that are happening in the eastern part of India is against giving citizenship to illegal immigrants.

India's hunt for illegal immigrants is transparently aimed at the country's Muslims. Any suggestion otherwise is just wrong.

The government, over the last few years, has subjected many of its citizens to a bureaucratic nightmare to prove their citizenship. In many cases, all it takes to be declared a foreigner is for a neighbor to file an "objection" letter, which amounts to nothing more than an accusation. From there, the onus is on you to prove your own nationality to the nightmare that is India's legal system.

Under India's new citizenship law, Hindus (and members of most other religions) swept up into this mess can simply petition for citizenship. Conveniently for the current government, Muslims cannot.

Re: India builds detention camps for up to 1.9M people not on citizens register

#28

Post by deepGem »

pm90 wrote: post #18

This is extremely bad but also completely expected. Concrete promises of economic growth are hard to deliver on, so the Politicians will focus on inciting religious differences instead.

This is beyond bad. The government has slowly inched to their religions roots and have made religious segregation their primary mandate. I mean, at this rate, we will be no different from Saudi Arabia or other countries where religion dominates all policy decisions.

I don't know if Modi is a hard core religious fanatic or if his hands are just tied down by RSS brass who are most likely inciting this nonsense, especially at a stage when the economy is in near doldrums.

The government has also passed the equivalent of patriot act in India. https://techcrunch.com/2019/12/10/india-personal-data-protec...

CAB + NRC + Data bill => Orwelian fucking dictatorship all around.

What an awful time to be in India. Sadly, most people will wake up to the reality later than sooner.

Re: India builds detention camps for up to 1.9M people not on citizens register

#30

Post by mlnj »

this-ali wrote: post #9
reactspa wrote: post #2

1. Nobody was stripped of citizenship. They couldn't prove they had it in the first place. 2. You won't learn this from the media's narrative about it, but: the reason why most protestors are protesting the Citizenship Amendment is not because muslim refugees (from Pak., Bangla. and Afghan.) are excluded, but because everyone else (non-muslim refugees [i.e. persecuted religious minorities from these officially "Islam…

> So, most protestors are not protesting muslim exclusion, they're protesting anyone's inclusion. That is not true. Protestors are protesting the problems existing minorities (specifically Muslims) thanks to the combined power NRC and CAB gives to the government. In short, You can stay in the country if you are non-minority (everyone except muslims) you dont have to product proof like ancestry and stuff. But if you a…

> "asked to leave"

And that's the funny part. Where is such a person supposed to leave to? They were born in India, lived all their life in India. They have never seen another state let alone another country.

CAB + NRC is just a play to render millions of poor Indians 'Stateless'.

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