India builds detention camps for up to 1.9M people not on citizens register • Hacker News Board

Re: India builds detention camps for up to 1.9M people not on citizens register

#11

Post by vageli » Wed, Dec 18, 2019, 5:05 AM UTC

goombastic wrote: post #6

reactspa wrote: post #2

1. Nobody was stripped of citizenship. They couldn't prove they had it in the first place. 2. You won't learn this from the media's narrative about it, but: the reason why most protestors are protesting the Citizenship Amendment is not because muslim refugees (from Pak., Bangla. and Afghan.) are excluded, but because everyone else (non-muslim refugees [i.e. persecuted religious minorities from these officially "Islam…

It is not the citizen's responsibility to prove he is a citizen, it is the government's responsibility to prove that he isn't. Guilty until proven innocent? How is that fair?

> It is not the citizen's responsibility to prove he is a citizen, it is the government's responsibility to prove that he isn't.

> Guilty until proven innocent? How is that fair?

By this rationale, couldn't one claim citizenship to any country? When I arrive at a foreign border I don't say, "Allow me entry, I am a citizen, prove otherwise."

I understand that further from the border this encroachment is less justified, but still I don't think citizenship is granted until proven otherwise.

Re: India builds detention camps for up to 1.9M people not on citizens register

#12

Post by goombastic » Wed, Dec 18, 2019, 5:06 AM UTC

vageli wrote: post #11

goombastic wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is not the citizen's responsibility to prove he is a citizen, it is the government's responsibility to prove that he isn't. Guilty until proven innocent? How is that fair?

> It is not the citizen's responsibility to prove he is a citizen, it is the government's responsibility to prove that he isn't. > Guilty until proven innocent? How is that fair? By this rationale, couldn't one claim citizenship to any country? When I arrive at a foreign border I don't say, "Allow me entry, I am a citizen, prove otherwise." I understand that further from the border this encroachment is less justified…

You cant just wake up one day and suddenly proclaim everyone a non citizen. In that case this is a non-government having been elected by non-citizens! Right?

Re: India builds detention camps for up to 1.9M people not on citizens register

#13

Post by routerhash » Wed, Dec 18, 2019, 5:08 AM UTC

goombastic wrote: post #7

routerhash wrote: post #4

This is not a case of `stripped of citizenship`. India just built detention camps for illegal immigrants in the country. I think every country in the world does this to illegal immigrants (and later deported). The protests that are happening in the eastern part of India is against giving citizenship to illegal immigrants.

Well, in every other place in the world, the government doesn't wake up one day and ask citizens to prove they are Citizens. This is what happens if you elect bombastic incapable governments. The government doesn't realize that by their own logic they aren't elected by citizens anymore. By their own logic, they need to hold elections again I guess.

This is not a recent thing. Read about Assam Accord of 1985 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Assam_Accord The protests in eastern part of India is to uphold this accord. The current government has diluted the accord to give citizenship to these illegal immigrants(excluding Muslims, LTTE, etc) with the CAB bill.

Re: India builds detention camps for up to 1.9M people not on citizens register

#14

Post by snowcat8 » Wed, Dec 18, 2019, 5:08 AM UTC

[flagged]

Re: India builds detention camps for up to 1.9M people not on citizens register

#15

Post by shafkathullah » Wed, Dec 18, 2019, 5:08 AM UTC

goombastic wrote: post #6

reactspa wrote: post #2

1. Nobody was stripped of citizenship. They couldn't prove they had it in the first place. 2. You won't learn this from the media's narrative about it, but: the reason why most protestors are protesting the Citizenship Amendment is not because muslim refugees (from Pak., Bangla. and Afghan.) are excluded, but because everyone else (non-muslim refugees [i.e. persecuted religious minorities from these officially "Islam…

It is not the citizen's responsibility to prove he is a citizen, it is the government's responsibility to prove that he isn't. Guilty until proven innocent? How is that fair?

Very well said

Re: India builds detention camps for up to 1.9M people not on citizens register

#16

Post by mlnj » Wed, Dec 18, 2019, 5:09 AM UTC

routerhash wrote: post #4

This is not a case of `stripped of citizenship`. India just built detention camps for illegal immigrants in the country. I think every country in the world does this to illegal immigrants (and later deported). The protests that are happening in the eastern part of India is against giving citizenship to illegal immigrants.

Yes, the `stripped of citizenship` parts come in later with the NRC (National Register of Citizens).

https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/news/et-explains/is-a-p...

Anyone who is not able to prove their citizenship will naturally be declared illegal immigrant and then have an option to apply for citizenship depending on their religion. This applies to anyone who IS NOT a Muslim.

Millions of poor and illiterate people in India have no documentation proving their citizenship, let alone documents going back decades proving that their ancestors were Indians. We all know how the route of detention camps go when the number of detainees goes up to millions.

Re: India builds detention camps for up to 1.9M people not on citizens register

#17

Post by PhasmaFelis » Wed, Dec 18, 2019, 5:09 AM UTC

routerhash wrote: post #4

This is not a case of `stripped of citizenship`. India just built detention camps for illegal immigrants in the country. I think every country in the world does this to illegal immigrants (and later deported). The protests that are happening in the eastern part of India is against giving citizenship to illegal immigrants.

> This is not a case of `stripped of citizenship`. India just built detention camps for illegal immigrants in the country.

That's a really disingenuous way of putting it, as I think you know.

Several million people who have lived in India for generations in some cases, who have never been offered or asked for citizenship papers, have suddenly been declared illegal. To prove their citizenship they need to provide documents that were rarely ever created in rural India. This is hardly just sweeping up random migrants.

> The protests that are happening in the eastern part of India is against giving citizenship to illegal immigrants.

That may be true in the east, but the largest and most vocal protests are in the opposite direction.

Re: India builds detention camps for up to 1.9M people not on citizens register

#18

Post by pm90 » Wed, Dec 18, 2019, 5:10 AM UTC

This is extremely bad but also completely expected. Concrete promises of economic growth are hard to deliver on, so the Politicians will focus on inciting religious differences instead.

Re: India builds detention camps for up to 1.9M people not on citizens register

#19

Post by gagorder » Wed, Dec 18, 2019, 5:11 AM UTC

reactspa wrote: post #2

1. Nobody was stripped of citizenship. They couldn't prove they had it in the first place. 2. You won't learn this from the media's narrative about it, but: the reason why most protestors are protesting the Citizenship Amendment is not because muslim refugees (from Pak., Bangla. and Afghan.) are excluded, but because everyone else (non-muslim refugees [i.e. persecuted religious minorities from these officially "Islam…

Regarding 1 - the government now wants to repeat Assam NRC exercise all over the country. Why? Why do we need to prove our citizenship now all of a sudden?

Regarding 2 - the government handpicked only those countries which have Islam as state religion, and ignored others like Sri Lanka, Myanmar, Nepal, Bhutan and China.

The largest refugee population in India are Sri Lankan Hindu Tamils living for more than 30 years who were not included. Since including Sri Lanka would force them to include Myanmar which means Rohingyas will have to be accepted too.

The CAA is just a new political tool since Ram temple is now settled.

Politics like fire needs its fuel.

Re: India builds detention camps for up to 1.9M people not on citizens register

#20

Post by gagorder » Wed, Dec 18, 2019, 5:15 AM UTC

vageli wrote: post #11

goombastic wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is not the citizen's responsibility to prove he is a citizen, it is the government's responsibility to prove that he isn't. Guilty until proven innocent? How is that fair?

> It is not the citizen's responsibility to prove he is a citizen, it is the government's responsibility to prove that he isn't. > Guilty until proven innocent? How is that fair? By this rationale, couldn't one claim citizenship to any country? When I arrive at a foreign border I don't say, "Allow me entry, I am a citizen, prove otherwise." I understand that further from the border this encroachment is less justified…

> When I arrive at a foreign border

We didn't arrive at the border today, we were born here, and now we are being asked to stand in line to submit documentary proofs of not only ours but of our parents and grandparents.