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Engineer says Google fired her for notifying co-workers of right to organize

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Re: Engineer says Google fired her for notifying co-workers of right to organize

#701

Post by scarface74 »

CharlesColeman wrote: post #686
scarface74 wrote: post #677

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Some things are just common sense. It wasn’t her role to disseminate information about any type of compliance outside of security. As a professional, you should know what’s appropriate in a workplace based on your position.

> Some things are just common sense. It wasn’t her role to disseminate information about any type of compliance outside of security. As a professional, you should know what’s appropriate in a workplace based on your position. "Common sense" often isn't as common or as sensible as some people think. You often make seemingly-authoritative statements like "it wasn't her role." Avoiding post-hoc rationalizations based on…

Do you really need someone to tell you that if you work on security it’s not your told to disseminate information about hiring?

Re: Engineer says Google fired her for notifying co-workers of right to organize

#702

Post by freyr »

drakonka wrote: post #409

It feels weird for me to read comments in this thread debating about and assuming a simple note about unionization or organization by an employee whose job it was to do exactly this kind of thing is "not in good faith" or a "violation". In my mind this kind of thing has the same sentiment as _any_ policy notice. The world in which notifying people that they have the right to organize is a "violation" is a really mess…

Using access granted to you as a developer to alter work tools to spam controversial messages to your coworkers is wildly inappropriate and unprofessional. There's no rationalization that makes this acceptable behavior.

Re: Engineer says Google fired her for notifying co-workers of right to organize

#703

Post by freyr »

hannasanarion wrote: post #235
makomk wrote: post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't buy this analogy. If there's one thing news reporting has demonstrated over the last few years, it's that Google is not lacking in actual digital equivalents of noticeboards where people can put up the equivalent of posters. This seems like she decided that wasn't aggressive enough and implemented the political equivalent of slipping adware into a browser extension instead.

Putting adware into a browser extension that is already just adware (pops up messages on sites the employer doesn't want you to visit) is not a security risk.

It's not about being a security risk.

This person used their access as a developer to alter internal security tools to promote their own messaging. That shows a profound lack of judgement, and it's not surprising their access would be revoked.

Re: Engineer says Google fired her for notifying co-workers of right to organize

#704

Post by nahtnam »

swish_bob wrote: post #250
tdfx wrote: post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I love that a site full of engineers is pretending that getting a pull request approved by colleagues is the same thing as getting management's approval for a new, most likely controversial feature. Google is clearly trying to squash union organizing at the company but let's not pretend this employee was correct in her actions. Google being evil and this employee being in the wrong are not mutually exclusive.

I'm stunned by the number of people who think that reviewing a PR is just a matter of checking the code works and looks clean. Does nobody ask what the code is for and why you're doing it? I mean, I don't expect people to require detailed specs before approving, but a quick "what's this code for, and why are you doing it?" before addressing the details. Surely that's the bare minimum, isn't it?

Even if they asked those questions, the PR would've looked pretty legit. No one directly asks "did your manager approve this?", that would be silly. When a PR is made and you're asked to review, you assume that the person went through the proper steps to get approval in the first place. In this case those other employees would've seen just another notice being added to an employee page

Re: Engineer says Google fired her for notifying co-workers of right to organize

#705

Post by freyr »

iwantagrinder wrote: post #19
kache_ wrote: post #7

>Kathryn Spiers, who worked as a security engineer, updated an internal Chrome browser extension so that each time Google employees visited the website of IRI Consultants — the Troy, Michigan, firm that Google hired this year amid a groundswell of labor activism at the company — they would see a pop-up message that read: “Googlers have the right to participate in protected concerted activities.” You should get fired…

Did you not read the part where she did, where she followed the process by the book and it was approved? Or did you just have your mind made up to decide to side with Google instead?

They got a code review. That doesn't mean the message they inserted was approved, it just means they got two engineers to sign off on the code.

Obviously, inserting pro-unionization messaging into a security tool isn't "by the book", or we wouldn't be having this discussion.

Re: Engineer says Google fired her for notifying co-workers of right to organize

#706

Post by [deleted] »

geofft wrote: post #593
scarmig wrote: post #512

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The extension is intended to inform Googlers of applications that are not approved for corp data, not just generic "employee guidelines and company policies." This is so you don't e.g. upload PII into a random unsecured S3 bucket. Yes, it's company policy, but this is more like running into a meeting and then interrupting it so you can start reciting NLRB policy than it is posting a flyer. Worse, it misappropriates a…

In her account, she says, > For example, someone changed the default desktop wallpaper during the walkout last year so that the Linux penguin was holding a protest sign. The company has never reacted aggressively in response to a notification such as this in the past. It’s always been a celebrated part of the culture. Is this accurate? If it's culturally acceptable to change everyone's desktop wallpaper (including of…

[deleted]

Re: Engineer says Google fired her for notifying co-workers of right to organize

#707

Post by ThrowawayR2 »

tehjoker wrote: post #459
ajross wrote: post #354

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, really. How about the converse: what if Google used it's ability to control employees' email to send messages on their behalf arguing against unionization? Part of the right of free speech is correctness of attribution. Trying to speak as someone else, using someone else's communication channels isn't speech, it's fraud. And I say that as (at least within the spectrum of folks on this site) a full on pinko commi…

Workers need to be willing to break the law in order to win victories against the people that make the laws. Employers aren't even the law, this is such a small thing and is defensible. I don't see a reason to side with Google at all, if they really vociferously disagreed, they could ask her to remove the notification.

> "Workers need to be willing to break the law in order to win victories against the people that make the laws..."

Like most of the general public, I have no desire to associate with criminals. If you build your union on a foundation of illegal acts, there's no reason for anyone to believe you'll stop once it gets fully established. Existing unions in the United States provide ample proof of that.

Re: Engineer says Google fired her for notifying co-workers of right to organize

#708

Post by tehjoker »

dhdhebsb wrote: post #636
tehjoker wrote: post #464

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's inflammatory for Google to retain an anti-labor union cracking firm.

Perhaps. But that doesn’t make her action any less so. She’s not a victim. She made a choice (which I personally agree with and find admirable) but the firing seems justifiable.

It's justifiable because that's where the discourse is. If the discourse shifts, Google would be in a tough spot.

Re: Engineer says Google fired her for notifying co-workers of right to organize

#709

Post by someonehere »

I’ve decided that if I’m at work, please keep me out of your protest. Let me decide how I want to react to a company policy my way. Don’t violate the trust given to your team of managing my work tools to inject your political/social objections. Organize outside of work.

Re: Engineer says Google fired her for notifying co-workers of right to organize

#710

Post by tehjoker »

ThrowawayR2 wrote: post #707
tehjoker wrote: post #459

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Workers need to be willing to break the law in order to win victories against the people that make the laws. Employers aren't even the law, this is such a small thing and is defensible. I don't see a reason to side with Google at all, if they really vociferously disagreed, they could ask her to remove the notification.

> " Workers need to be willing to break the law in order to win victories against the people that make the laws... " Like most of the general public, I have no desire to associate with criminals. If you build your union on a foundation of illegal acts, there's no reason for anyone to believe you'll stop once it gets fully established. Existing unions in the United States provide ample proof of that.

When workers organize and attempt to make demands greater than than the bosses are willing accede to, the bosses call in the police, private security, and depending on the political climate, right wing street fighters to start cracking heads. For a famous example of a dual power situation consider the 1934 Minneapolis teamsters' strike.

https://teamster.org/about/teamster-history/1934

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