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Ask HN: CS, still a good career in 3-5 years?

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Re: Ask HN: CS, still a good career in 3-5 years?

#91
Unpopular opinion: it's not a good career unless you are the best of the best.

IMO blue collar work is a better option because it's easier work and more stable, and lets you have a life outside work. In software the hours are increasing to no real benefit, and free time is burnt just keeping with the times. The evolution of tools, best practices and high availability of quality knowledge has made it trivial to spin up new hires which makes everyone highly expendable; not to mention that there are now millions of unwashed masses happy to accept lower wages just for their chance.

There was a HN post a while back where some guy was begging to pay for a code job. What does that tell you? Software workers are also now pitted against a global market with outsourcing and programs like H-1B which has raised the bar by increasing the pool of highly educated candidates and people who commit resume fraud. They're likely also more willing to work long hours for less pay just to be in the US. Software wages have also stagnated for ten years.

Re: Ask HN: CS, still a good career in 3-5 years?

#92

CS isn't a career. CS is part of all careers. I imagine when cuneiform was first invented, there was a group of people who were the first writers and they probably worried that it would get saturated. How can we all be writers? There are only so many things to write down: recipes, shopping lists, the kings desires, and heroic tales. What are the rest of us going to do? But of course writing is just a way of expressin…

> CS isn't a career. CS is part of all careers. This right here. I was in awe when I realized that software engineering affects all industries. Even farmers, it might not be necessary, but it can make a huge difference. Also I too have been coding for a long time because I love programming. The way I see it, if I ever tire of it, I can switch careers. I'd still code regardless of who pays me to do what.

> Even farmers, it might not be necessary, but it can make a huge difference.

As a software developer by day, farmer by night, I'm not sure there is much overlap. Some of the problem solving skills I learned on the farm have made me a better programmer, I expect, but I don't see much advantage in building software for my farm. Anything you can dream of is available commercially at a fraction of the cost it would take to build it yourself. As the saying goes, technology is developed in the military, adopted by agriculture, and then exposed to the rest of the world.

That said, the story is quite different for my new side venture in a consumer market, however. I could easily turn development into a full time job in that industry. There is a lot lacking in what already exists.

Re: Ask HN: CS, still a good career in 3-5 years?

#93
CS is a part of everything nowadays. I never studied CS; I taught myself. My bachelor's is in Criminal Justice, which I never used other than to find work in other countries (mostly as a teacher)

Now I work as a remote programmer for a Geoinformatics company. My masters will be in Geoinformatics because I found that I like maps and that cool mapping tech that uses different kinds of sensors and stuff.

It sounds like your friends, who got into it for the money, may be the kind that burn out and not get into it later on in life. If what you say is true, you're more passionate about it and will continue to code even in the bad times.

Use it as a platform to find problems you want to solve, and use your knowledge to solve those problems.

CS has _always_ involved unsustainable hours. The trick is to get good enough so that you don't have to do that. Maybe go into a more niche field (like what I'm doing)

Re: Ask HN: CS, still a good career in 3-5 years?

#94
I think you have no idea how privileged you are for having the opportunity to enter the market with your background and a computer science degree in three years. I interned during summers during university starting around 2000. The dot com bubble had burst before I even graduated. The party was over. Managerialism was in full force. IT Managers at what was then a Fortune-10 financial powerhouse were going on an on about how all of IT consisted of commoditised workers and the only way forward was as a manager of offshore consultants. I felt like my degree was worthless. The last ~20 years have proven those managers very, very wrong. In fact, many of those managers didn't go much further with their careers, as they were very reliant on politics, but the talented programmers and admins continued to grow in depth and breadth of in-demand expertise.

Pursue computer science but challenge yourself with it. Don't waste these years just getting by. Double major in something that will help you work with artificial intelligence, if you want to do something practical, but double majoring in something such as philosophy could help you develop skills that you'll use for the rest of your life.

Summer internships can help you gain perspective about what you may want to do after graduation. A lot of people change employers, and some even change careers, within the first four years after university so anticipate change.

Re: Ask HN: CS, still a good career in 3-5 years?

#95
post #77

Do what you love - as cliche as that. The best career is the one that gives you joy and fulfillment. If CS is what floats your boat then it’s the right choice for you. Go for career that pays much more but you must drag yourself from bed to go to the office every morning and you are set up for a life of misery - no matter how much money you make.

>> Do what you love - as cliche as that. >> The best career is the one that gives you joy and fulfillment. What? No. This is actively harmful advice.

It's only harmful advice when you consider all possible professions.

If you limit the search space to fields where you will be able to earn a living, it's not half bad advice.

Re: Ask HN: CS, still a good career in 3-5 years?

#96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> CS isn't a career. CS is part of all careers. This right here. I was in awe when I realized that software engineering affects all industries. Even farmers, it might not be necessary, but it can make a huge difference. Also I too have been coding for a long time because I love programming. The way I see it, if I ever tire of it, I can switch careers. I'd still code regardless of who pays me to do what.

> Even farmers, it might not be necessary, but it can make a huge difference. As a software developer by day, farmer by night, I'm not sure there is much overlap. Some of the problem solving skills I learned on the farm have made me a better programmer, I expect, but I don't see much advantage in building software for my farm. Anything you can dream of is available commercially at a fraction of the cost it would take…

I'm not sure that's a saying outside of agriculture.

Re: Ask HN: CS, still a good career in 3-5 years?

#97
post #65

I think it'll be pretty good career until some kind of tipping point is hit. My suggestion is to become excellent at CS, get an internship, then specialize in a fascinating area of forward-looking work (don't study COBOL. :) ). also if you love coding, keep on keeping on. if you wind up making average income, that's ok .

It's funny you say this. I've always had a suspicision that every budding programmer I encounter studies forward looking things, and if a young person did study something ancient like COBOL, they'd probably have great job security and stand out for the few companies that need that kind of developer.

Speaking of COBOL - the next "big thing" of that nature is likely going to be Visual Basic 6.

It's an albatross around Microsoft's neck, but every time they update Windows, they keep around the runtime DLLs - because so many businesses have software written internally and otherwise that can't migrate to something else.

If you know VB6 - and you are confident in migration to another platform, or willing to maintain old code (maybe while migrating) - you'll likely have work long into the future.

The most likely migration path would be from VB6 to VB.NET or to C# - staying on the Windows platform. Another option would be migration to GAMBAS or Mono (aka .NET for *nix).

Those feeling adventurous might try Python with QT, or some other GUI framework; at some point, it might be better just to examine and understand the core logic and flow - then convert it all over to a web-accessible system (of whatever choice you want).

I imagine that in time we'll see some kind of VB6 to WASM compiler or something, if someone hasn't already taken a stab at it. What we won't see, though, is Microsoft open-sourcing VB6 or anything like that. They've said they want to, but due to the various licenses used in the development of the language (and components) - it's virtually impossible for them to do it.

I coded in VB (3-6) for well over a decade, but it's been forever since I last touched it. That said, I'll always have a soft-spot for BASIC (having grown up on a version of Microsoft BASIC on the TRS-80 Color Computer line) - so I could probably pick up where I left off once I rebooted the VS compiler/IDE, without too much trouble.

I expect that might be where my career turns to as I get older (currently 46 and working in SPA Javascript/NodeJS apps).

Re: Ask HN: CS, still a good career in 3-5 years?

#98
post #59

It entirely depends what you're trying to do. If you want to make a bunch of money, it's unfortunately more about politics and luck than merit. If you're trying to maximize income, you should focus on understanding finance/business and building soft skills. You're probably over the threshold of how much you need to know about computers. Maybe get some training on how to work better with others, or how to negotiate ef…

> If you're trying to maximize income, you should focus on understanding finance/business and building soft skills. You're probably over the threshold of how much you need to know about computers. Maybe get some training on how to work better with others, or how to negotiate effectively. In other words, soft skills are going to be the value you have over your peers that have been cramming CS for the last 4 years. Thi…

Completely agree with this point (especially the third). If you look at high income individuals, many have had a hand in building a new business or lead businesses. Same goes for consulting - imagine charging 20+ clients over the course of a year and the income that will generate.

You'll have to work your ass off, but if money is what you're after, starting your own business (or businesses), consulting, and high end freelance work are incredible places for this.

A fourth may be pure finance (M&A, PE, hedge funds). People in that business long enough and high enough on the chain make VERY good money.

Re: Ask HN: CS, still a good career in 3-5 years?

#99
Advice for you:

Try personally pinging the people you respect the most -- send an email to Paul Graham, Peter Thiel, creators your respect. You'll be surprised with two things: first, they'll respond, and second, their responses will surprise you.

This is a public forum -- it's going to be hard for you to separate signal from noise.

Re: Ask HN: CS, still a good career in 3-5 years?

#100

I’ve been thinking about that a lot myself for a few years now, since my 16-year-old son is talking about majoring in CS when he gets into college in a couple of years - he’s even optimizing his high school courses to maximize his chances of getting into a good program in a good school. Having worked as a programmer now for nearly 30 years, I see programming devolving as a career more and more every year: now we have…

It's pretty much always been that way though. Death March was written 20 years ago:

https://www.amazon.com/Death-March-Developers-Surviving-Impo...

I'd say the demand for programmers is higher than ever and pay is definitely higher overall. 20 years ago $150k was a good salary for a programmer, now it's more like $350k.

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