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Engineer says Google fired her for notifying co-workers of right to organize

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Re: Engineer says Google fired her for notifying co-workers of right to organize

#681

Post by manicdee »

cj wrote: post #5

> Kathryn Spiers, who worked as a security engineer, updated an internal Chrome browser extension so that each time Google employees visited the website of IRI Consultants — the Troy, Michigan, firm that Google hired this year amid a groundswell of labor activism at the company — they would see a pop-up message that read: “Googlers have the right to participate in protected concerted activities.” So basically, the Go…

What would be the cheapest-approved mechanism of presenting this legally mandated notice to employees? Remembering this isn’t just a generic legal requirement but a specific demand imposed on Google at this point in time.

Re: Engineer says Google fired her for notifying co-workers of right to organize

#682

Post by dlp211 »

glofish wrote: post #304
shantly wrote: post #229

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's more like posting a reminder of the current legal minimum wage—and only showed up, apparently, if the user visited the site of a consulting firm Google hired to help them figure out how to avoid unionization. A great and entirely "professional" thing to do? Nah, but hardly worth the vigorous harumphing and tut-tutting it's receiving. It's not like she contributed code to Amp or spearheaded putting ads inline wit…

I think, especially in the light of how it was targeted, a better analogy would be the act of popping a message from the Democrats when visiting the Republican RNC website or vice-versa. I find it oppressive - the mere "reminder" wants to interfere, it wants to to take away your ability to think for yourself and make up your own mind.

I don't get how so many of the comments on here go straight to political messaging. It's an NLRB notice. There is nothing political about it.

Re: Engineer says Google fired her for notifying co-workers of right to organize

#683

Post by drewbug01 »

ticmasta wrote: post #607
KirinDave wrote: post #322

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If those thoughts are factual and relevant to the topic at hand, it... does seem like it's reasonable? She's an engineer, not someone working a type pool.

Only because you brought it up, someone in the typing pool likely has more education and experience: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kathryn-spiers-1b3048a1/ By any measure she's not an engineer.

> By any measure she's not an engineer.

Please explain why she's not an engineer; and please take care to include discussion of why anyone is an arbiter of the "engineer" title in a field which is largely unregulated and not credentialed.

Otherwise the most charitable reading of your comment is something like "ticmasta thinks security engineers are not real engineers," and the less charitable reading is something like "ticmasta claims this person is not an engineer because she is a woman," which is incredibly juvenile and misogynistic. It has no place on this forum.

Re: Engineer says Google fired her for notifying co-workers of right to organize

#684

Post by neilparikh »

matwood wrote: post #562
SiempreViernes wrote: post #358

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unionising is a pretty good means to improve your working conditions though.

Does Google not have enough vegan options in the free cafe?

Why are you mentioning veganism in a conversation about unionizing?

Re: Engineer says Google fired her for notifying co-workers of right to organize

#686

Post by CharlesColeman »

scarface74 wrote: post #677
CharlesColeman wrote: post #597

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Is she part of the company’s legal team? If that's was an actual requirement, can you make or point to a statement in an official Google capacity that states the notices displayed by the tool she maintained had to be written or pre-cleared by Google's legal team? If you can, was the requirement for legal team involvement established practice and not some post-hoc rationalization for her firing?

Some things are just common sense. It wasn’t her role to disseminate information about any type of compliance outside of security. As a professional, you should know what’s appropriate in a workplace based on your position.

> Some things are just common sense. It wasn’t her role to disseminate information about any type of compliance outside of security. As a professional, you should know what’s appropriate in a workplace based on your position.

"Common sense" often isn't as common or as sensible as some people think.

You often make seemingly-authoritative statements like "it wasn't her role." Avoiding post-hoc rationalizations based on the fact that she was fired, can you explain to me how that was communicated to her?

Re: Engineer says Google fired her for notifying co-workers of right to organize

#687

Post by matwood »

neilparikh wrote: post #684
matwood wrote: post #562

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Does Google not have enough vegan options in the free cafe?

Why are you mentioning veganism in a conversation about unionizing?

The parent comment said:

> Unionising is a pretty good means to improve your working conditions though.

Google has some of the best, if not the best working conditions out of nearly any job for the rank and file employee.

Re: Engineer says Google fired her for notifying co-workers of right to organize

#688

Post by dmix »

scarmig wrote: post #633
lr wrote: post #629

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You obviously didn't read her blog post where she stated the following: "This kind of code change happens all the time. We frequently add things to make our jobs easier or even to just share hobbies or interests. For example, someone changed the default desktop wallpaper during the walkout last year so that the Linux penguin was holding a protest sign. The company has never reacted aggressively in response to a notif…

No, the kind of code change she committed has never happened before. A change in desktop wallpaper is not the same as a change in a security extension. The fact that other employees have participated in pro-employee activism and not been disciplined speaks to that. Some things are fine, some things are not. Abusing security software is not.

Sharing a cute desktop background is inappropriate but it's only a picture on a background, misusing an internal security mechanism for your own pet activism when visiting a harmless website is a totally different tier of unprofessionalism.

Do you activism in your personal time. Don't use important company resources used to protect employees from harm to push your slogans. Regardless if those slogans are legally legitimate statements in a normal context, like handing out a leaflet on the edge of the property.

Re: Engineer says Google fired her for notifying co-workers of right to organize

#689

Post by CharlesColeman »

macspoofing wrote: post #243
GVIrish wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd agree, it sounds a lot like a code review, but at Google that was also the approval standard for deploying such an extension. I don't really see how Google could be in the right here though. If they have an internal program for creating alerts/extensions for specific websites, and Spiers followed the normal procedure for adding such an extension, there doesn't seem to be a problem. The only problem is Google bein…

>but at Google that was also the approval standard for deploying such an extension...I don't really see how Google could be in the right here though. I don't see how Google isn't in the right here. The approval process for this security tool was designed to minimize red-tape and maximize contributions because the goal was security, and the assumption was that the lax process wouldn't be abused. The clear intent of th…

> Certainly though if someone started putting in notes at the top of some of the pages to push a political agenda that would be an abuse of the process, wouldn't you say?

Just to be clear: the message she communicated wasn't about some divisive social issue, it was warning employees to not break federal labor law.

https://miro.medium.com/max/2000/0*1BTVYLTvuHiJVvp_.jpg

Re: Engineer says Google fired her for notifying co-workers of right to organize

#690

Post by CharlesColeman »

dmix wrote: post #688
scarmig wrote: post #633

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, the kind of code change she committed has never happened before. A change in desktop wallpaper is not the same as a change in a security extension. The fact that other employees have participated in pro-employee activism and not been disciplined speaks to that. Some things are fine, some things are not. Abusing security software is not.

Sharing a cute desktop background is inappropriate but it's only a picture on a background, misusing an internal security mechanism for your own pet activism when visiting a harmless website is a totally different tier of unprofessionalism. Do you activism in your personal time. Don't use important company resources used to protect employees from harm to push your slogans. Regardless if those slogans are legally legi…

> internal security mechanism

Correction: an internal message display tool.

> for your own pet activism

> push your slogans

Correction: a warning not to break federal labor law, which Google is actually required to provide.

https://miro.medium.com/max/2000/0*1BTVYLTvuHiJVvp_.jpg

> Do you activism in your personal time.

This is about Google. Apparently their company culture has been the opposite, and they have commonly had lots of political discussions on company time using company resources.

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