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France's AMF watchdog fines Bloomberg €5M over Vinci hoax

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211–220 of 270 posts

Re: France's AMF watchdog fines Bloomberg €5M over Vinci hoax

#211
post #155

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It immediately irks me that I'm defending agile here, but part of the point of agile is that the developer doesn't really know what the end user needs, so it's, in theory, better to get a minimum viable product out that meets the user's need, then refine on subsequent releases, rather than spend years working on releasing something perfect that it turns out doesn't fill the user's need. From a similar perspective for…

> From a similar perspective for journalism, I think there's an argument that can be made that it's better to get most of the information out right away, even if some of it is inaccurate, and then correct the inaccuracies later, rather than wait until every piece is confirmed and edited perfectly to release the information. Argument to extremes, think of a hurricane or volcano explosion. Following the argument to the…

But I don't think you would disagree the following is worthwhile:

"There is a hurricane, and we're hearing initial, unconfirmed reports that it's to the south. We want to stress these are unconfirmed at this time, etc etc"

Which is something that would traditionally be broadcast in an emergency.

Obviously, we're really talking about an extreme hypothetical, but as long as it's clear the information may not be complete or accurate at the time of reading, I see no problem (as long as it is eventually accurate).

Re: France's AMF watchdog fines Bloomberg €5M over Vinci hoax

#212

Isn’t Vinci SA the operator of all those French toll highways that were supposed to be free once construction was paid off, but continued to be tolled anyway?

Yes, it is. They got a good deal at our expenses following these outrageous privatisation. Meanwhile, some Spanish highways eventually got paid off and are becoming toll-free.

Since French highways often refuse non-EU credit cards at their toll booths, they have a special place in my heart.

Re: France's AMF watchdog fines Bloomberg €5M over Vinci hoax

#213

The headline probably needs qualification that the fine was in Europe, not the U.S. I was shocked that any U.S. regulator would attempt to push against the First Amendment in this way. It's a different story with more context.

> The headline probably needs qualification that the fine was in Europe I think the first word of the title, France, is a giveaway here.

[deleted]

Re: France's AMF watchdog fines Bloomberg €5M over Vinci hoax

#214
post #11

Do you remember the Bloomberg article about Big China Chip Hack? About Apple was been refuted, debunked, and ridiculed. See https://appleinsider.com/articles/19/10/04/editorial-a-year-...

The Big China Chip Hack was never actually debunked. It was refuted , yes, but every company always does that, right up until they admit in a court settlement that the allegations were true all along. Despite the supposedly slanderous statements, none of the supposedly slandered companies has sued over the article, even though in several cases they suffered material impacts to their stock prices and financial results…

It doesn't need to be debunked. Bloomberg never produced any evidence. Until they produce an example board it's safe to assume the story is garbage.

Re: France's AMF watchdog fines Bloomberg €5M over Vinci hoax

#215
post #176

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am as journalist-sympathetic as anyone on here, but even I would agree with the previous commenter's sentiment. Minimization of errors is an old and persistent problem in journalism, and the reasons for this can be relatively innocuous – e.g. general incompetence and complacency; not only in making the error, but also not having a system in place to collect and evaluate feedback/complaints from readers, nor to adeq…

The NYT article was correct. Title VI of the Civil Rights Act applies to discrimination on the basis of nationality, color, or race. By using Title VI, the Trump administration defined Jews as a race, color, or nationality. However, as Jews come in many races and colors already, the logical conclusion was that the Trump administration was defining Judaism as a nationality. Additional support for this comes from the f…

No, it was not correct. You can read the executive order for yourself: https://jewishinsider.com/2019/12/exclusive-a-first-look-at-...

And I again recommend this thread from Yair Rosenberg: https://twitter.com/Yair_Rosenberg/status/120457682761800499...

I posted the relevant original excerpt and what it was changed to. It is unequivocally different, and such a substantive change almost always necessitates a clarification if not a correction.

That was only one part of the article that was changed. The article's subhed/deck was also completely changed:

https://web.archive.org/web/20191210221006/https://www.nytim...

> The president’s action will define Judaism as a nationality, not just a religion, and empower the Education Department to withhold money from institutions that tolerate anti-Israel movements.

https://web.archive.org/web/20191211010003/https://www.nytim...

> The president’s action will protect Judaism under civil rights law and empower the Education Department to withhold money from institutions that tolerate anti-Israel movements.

Re: France's AMF watchdog fines Bloomberg €5M over Vinci hoax

#216

The headline probably needs qualification that the fine was in Europe, not the U.S. I was shocked that any U.S. regulator would attempt to push against the First Amendment in this way. It's a different story with more context.

If you think the 1st Amendment protects you from the SEC universally then you're in for a shock.

"Funding secured." - Elon Musk exercising free speech, 2018.

Re: France's AMF watchdog fines Bloomberg €5M over Vinci hoax

#217
post #197

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I believe it. Maybe not for that exact story So you don't believe it, you believe another story. Bloomberg didn't say "this is possible" they said "this is happening and here are the exact details".

I believe it is happening, yes. The obvious plausibility and the way I’ve seen other state-sponsored things (any state) hushed up means the only reasonable thing for me to do is assume the story is based on truth even if the picture isn’t 100% complete. To put it another way, I believe the Bloomberg story is the “Room 641A” to a Snowden-level expose we may never get.

> I believe it is happening, yes

> obvious plausibility

> assume

As I see it you don't actually believe that particular story, you believe something "like that" is plausible. So in other words Bloomberg wrote some plausible fiction. Nobody is saying something like that isn't possible, just that if we wanted to read fiction Bloomberg wouldn't be the place to look for it.

Given the string of high profile misreporting and failures to substantiate their claims one would have to be very gullible to still take Bloomberg reporting at face value without being presented with some hard proof and 3rd party confirmation.

Re: France's AMF watchdog fines Bloomberg €5M over Vinci hoax

#218

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, it is. They got a good deal at our expenses following these outrageous privatisation. Meanwhile, some Spanish highways eventually got paid off and are becoming toll-free.

Since French highways often refuse non-EU credit cards at their toll booths, they have a special place in my heart.

A little bit like US Gas station I suppose?

Re: France's AMF watchdog fines Bloomberg €5M over Vinci hoax

#219

My trust of bloomberg has been pretty low since the spy chip story, that seems to have been just a hoax. https://www.bloomberg.com/news/features/2018-10-04/the-big-h...

Something I've never been able to wrap my head around is the scale at play with the Supermicro story.

If the story is that a small handful of motherboards that were destined to be shipped to cloud providers from Supermicro had some remote monitoring / control capabilities (of varying types opportunistically applied) added to them at the behest of the Chinese government that sounds completely plausible and incredibly hard to verify and/or defend against.

I say plausible as we know that US intelligence agencies have conducted similar actions:

https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2014/05/photos-of-an-nsa...

And that's without even direct access to the manufacturing floor (as in the Supermicro case).

Re: France's AMF watchdog fines Bloomberg €5M over Vinci hoax

#220
post #216

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you think the 1st Amendment protects you from the SEC universally then you're in for a shock.

"Funding secured." - Elon Musk exercising free speech, 2018.

Read up on New York Times v. Sullivan. You can be held liable for knowingly publishing false statements, as Elon Musk did, but mistakenly publishing false statements is protected by the First Amendment. The exception (in the case where the target is a public figure) is if you exhibit “reckless disregard” for the statements’ “truth or falsity”, but that standard is much stricter than it sounds; you have to have “serious doubts” about whether they’re true, and publish them anyway.
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