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Story of Mattermost: Open-Sourced Competitor to Slack

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Re: Story of Mattermost: Open-Sourced Competitor to Slack

#71

Post by type0 »

duskwuff wrote: post #36
johnchristopher wrote: post #31

Yeah. But. https://github.com/mattermost/mattermost-server/issues/6320 Non-admins can delete/archive any channel #6320

What's more disturbing than the bug itself is the Mattermost team's response that this behavior is intentional for the free "team edition" of their software, and that "actually, I think the bug is that we should not be showing Channel Admin as a role in Team Edition" (i.e, users of the free edition don't get any kind of access controls, making it impractical to use outside a small group of trusted users). Potentially…

> more like a feature-limited demo.

demoware

Re: Story of Mattermost: Open-Sourced Competitor to Slack

#72

Post by buckminster »

spookthesunset wrote: post #60
sonthonax wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Go will often be faster than NodeJS. It can also be deployed as a binary rather than a blob of Node modules.

Why does any of that truly matter? What matters most is if it meets the needs of people using the product, not what language it is written in nor how it is deployed.

Cost matters too. If one solution needs more hardware or is a pain to deploy then these are additional costs that need to be taken into account.

Re: Story of Mattermost: Open-Sourced Competitor to Slack

#73

Post by type0 »

spookthesunset wrote: post #60
sonthonax wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Go will often be faster than NodeJS. It can also be deployed as a binary rather than a blob of Node modules.

Why does any of that truly matter? What matters most is if it meets the needs of people using the product, not what language it is written in nor how it is deployed.

Fairly anecdotal but feature breakages usually more common in Node apps than Go, it does "matter:most" for end users. It's not because of Node itself but the sheer amount of npm packages what's responsible for those.

Re: Story of Mattermost: Open-Sourced Competitor to Slack

#74

Post by gramakri »

spookthesunset wrote: post #60
sonthonax wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Go will often be faster than NodeJS. It can also be deployed as a binary rather than a blob of Node modules.

Why does any of that truly matter? What matters most is if it meets the needs of people using the product, not what language it is written in nor how it is deployed.

I guess it matters to people who deploy the app and not the users as such.

Re: Story of Mattermost: Open-Sourced Competitor to Slack

#75

Post by gramakri »

Tharkun wrote: post #38

I like Mattermost. My only gripe with it is that it's a bit of a pain to upgrade. Would be nice if they were to automate the upgrade procedure.

We support Mattermost on Cloudron which automates app updates.

disclaimer: co-founder of cloudron.io

Re: Story of Mattermost: Open-Sourced Competitor to Slack

#76

Post by gramakri »

johnchristopher wrote: post #31

Yeah. But. https://github.com/mattermost/mattermost-server/issues/6320 Non-admins can delete/archive any channel #6320

there is a good comment/response by the co-founder of mattermost at https://rolfje.wordpress.com/2017/10/26/mattermost-delete-ch... (scroll to the end of post for the comments)

Re: Story of Mattermost: Open-Sourced Competitor to Slack

#77

Post by syvanen »

type0 wrote: post #71
duskwuff wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What's more disturbing than the bug itself is the Mattermost team's response that this behavior is intentional for the free "team edition" of their software, and that "actually, I think the bug is that we should not be showing Channel Admin as a role in Team Edition" (i.e, users of the free edition don't get any kind of access controls, making it impractical to use outside a small group of trusted users). Potentially…

> more like a feature-limited demo. demoware

Shareware is making a comeback?

Re: Story of Mattermost: Open-Sourced Competitor to Slack

#78

Post by jrochkind1 »

duskwuff wrote: post #36
johnchristopher wrote: post #31

Yeah. But. https://github.com/mattermost/mattermost-server/issues/6320 Non-admins can delete/archive any channel #6320

What's more disturbing than the bug itself is the Mattermost team's response that this behavior is intentional for the free "team edition" of their software, and that "actually, I think the bug is that we should not be showing Channel Admin as a role in Team Edition" (i.e, users of the free edition don't get any kind of access controls, making it impractical to use outside a small group of trusted users). Potentially…

I think "all team members are admins" is more usable than you think it is; I generally do this for many cloud services on most of my teams even at my day job; it's just not worth spending time dealing with access control, setting it up, and then someone who can't do what they need to do for their job cause you didn't give them enough access, or the only person who can do what needs done is on vacation, etc.

I often say "We don't have (or use the) locks on our doors at our physical individual offices, but that doesn't mean any of us would go into someone elses office when they aren't there and trash everything on their desk. And it's not a problem. What makes electronic resources different?" [I know HN audience will now give me an exhaustive list of what makes electronic resources different; please don't bother; I know this approach doesn't always work. With physical offices either].

But I agree with you that that level of feature-crippling makes me want to all it more like demoware than open source.

Re: Story of Mattermost: Open-Sourced Competitor to Slack

#79

Post by ryanisnan »

jrochkind1 wrote: post #78
duskwuff wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What's more disturbing than the bug itself is the Mattermost team's response that this behavior is intentional for the free "team edition" of their software, and that "actually, I think the bug is that we should not be showing Channel Admin as a role in Team Edition" (i.e, users of the free edition don't get any kind of access controls, making it impractical to use outside a small group of trusted users). Potentially…

I think "all team members are admins" is more usable than you think it is; I generally do this for many cloud services on most of my teams even at my day job; it's just not worth spending time dealing with access control, setting it up, and then someone who can't do what they need to do for their job cause you didn't give them enough access, or the only person who can do what needs done is on vacation, etc. I often s…

> it's just not worth spending time dealing with access control

Until one day, when you have some sort of incident, and it will have become very worth your while to "deal with" access control.

Re: Story of Mattermost: Open-Sourced Competitor to Slack

#80

Post by [deleted] »

ergothus wrote: post #24
davidw wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> We don't have a working chat standard, and it shows and we need to fix it. IRC works pretty well. The only thing I sometimes miss is history, but... in some ways that's not a bad thing, and could be added without too much trouble. Slack has history because Slack wants you to live in it. No history emphasizes that chat is ephemeral and something to tune in and out. Use email or something else for more permanent disc…

> Use email or something else for more permanent discussions. I don't actually agree with this. Email has hefty overhead per message. Chat allows for faster and easier communications, which does NOT mean you can't have a history. Indeed, history and search is the real selling point of Slack for me. Everything else Slack has over IRC is trivial and not worth abandoning the standards.

[deleted]
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