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Climbing the Wealth Ladder

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Re: Climbing the Wealth Ladder

#231
post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Except that the most interesting part of life is over What makes life beyond 55 uninteresting?

I think that depends on who you ask. People in their 20s still think people in their 50s are old.

In my world 50 isn't that old in this day and age. Most people I know at an age around 50 are healthy, active and enjoy life often even more then people in their 30s with young kids and everything else around that.

Re: Climbing the Wealth Ladder

#232
post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree, what’s useful about this mentality is not about becoming a multimillionaire, it’s about having your wealth match your income. A doctor making 250k is often living pay check to pay check while spending crazy money. Even with a steady paycheck their not accumulating wealth. Even worse, a football player with a 20million dollar contract is likely to end up broke if they instantly maximize their spending. Howeve…

It bothers me when people use the phrase living paycheck to paycheck to describe both someone who literally doesn’t make enough money to cover the essential bills of living as well as someone making $200k+. These people are not in the same boat whatsoever. The doctor, or any professional making that much, simply needs to turn in the lease on the luxury car, or downsize their house, or cancel their vacation to materia…

They are in the same boat in that they face potential financial ruin if they don’t get their next paycheck for whatever reason.

There is already a separate terms to describe people who live paycheck to paycheck to cover essential living expenses, it is called poverty.

Re: Climbing the Wealth Ladder

#233

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Outside of real outlier status where you're paid really, really large amounts of money for your services (like notable entertainer or cardiac surgeon) the way to wealth is to own the means of production. Period. This is a lazy view, or a really privileged one at least. I know a couple of people in their fifties who have retired from putting as much money into the market as possible (post-tax and pre-tax) while livin…

Are you aware of the fact that your anecdotal evidence from the fifties may no longer be pertinent? Have you seen what happened to wages since then? To the cost of living? To the cost of homes?

"People in their fifties" not "People from the fifties"

Re: Climbing the Wealth Ladder

#234

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think that's the point of the article. If you have 4 weeks' worth of spending saved then it's difficult. If you have 40, then it's fairly easy. If you have 400, it's trivial.

well.. I was getting at, it still can be mentally difficult to pry yourself away from it, even if you financially can 'afford' it.

Tell me about it. I have over 25 years worth of living expenses and still haven't gotten the nerve to just get out.

Re: Climbing the Wealth Ladder

#235

I understand this isn't the point of the article, but it seems like a roundabout way of saying "don't overspend". This part in particular bothers me : > More importantly though, the best way to climb the wealth ladder is to spend money according to your level. As far as I (a non-economist) can personally tell, any notion of climbing up some abstract wealth ladder is synonym with a salary increase for the vast majorit…

Totally agree. But here's a thought: could wealth accumulation be a feedback loop? What I mean is, can the earning part benefit from a "reckless" spending side? Speaking from experience, I've been in the business of making more money because (1) I don't believe in saving (I've bought a few insurances here and there, because of course, health isn't guaranteed) (2) I love nice things and will get them at all cost.

I don't know what feeds into the other. Is my taste for recklessness a result of my implicit knowledge that I can generate a good sum of money when I need. Or am I waking up everyday and putting in the work in order to satisfy my reckless side? What I know for sure is that one can deliberately climb the ladder. And the undisputed "best way" to climb the wealth ladder is to generate (not receive) income. There are many ways to do that. Usually employment isn't one.

Re: Climbing the Wealth Ladder

#236

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even if you don't need it, you really probably do. A lot of people talking about entrepreneurship and whatnot have some kind of blindness to the idea that one can fail at these things, and once you've eaten up your savings you're back at square 0 and back to the soul-crushing reality of job. Objectively it is wiser to simply keep the job in the first place.

50% of small businesses fail. 20% fail in their first year. The real cost of failure isn't just loss of savings. It's potential homelessness, bankruptcy or death through less of health cover, or bankrupcty through student loan payments. In a functional culture the cost of entry for small businesses is much lower, as is the Total Cost of Failure. For a country that claims to be business friendly, the US makes it unbel…

This is something I think about a lot as an American in Canada. I can afford to stick my neck out in a lot of ways because, worst case, I still have healthcare even if I'm out of a job for 4+ weeks.

Re: Climbing the Wealth Ladder

#237
post #159

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So only if I buy direct? Not index funds?

(assuming you're asking in good faith) It's the same thing, just on a different scale. If you own, say, one share of VTSAX (Vanguard Total Market Index) you now own, by proxy, 1.8% of one share of Microsoft stock. You don't have any direct voting or economic rights but because of the way a mutual fund is structured you get most of the economic benefit of that fraction of a share. I.e. you get the benefit of most of t…

I still don't know how that equates to actual ownership of anything - it seems like an incredibly abstract form of ownership, as you get no power, don't share in the profits (if you don't get dividends you only get cash if you sell, that price being only vaguely linked to the current success of the company), and can have your ownership watered down at any time. You own the stock, but that seems incredibly distant from any "means of production".

Re: Climbing the Wealth Ladder

#238

Earlier quoted context omitted.

does a swedish exec really make just $5000/month post tax? that's not much more than I net at my first software gig out of college (and not in SF or NYC).

Where I live (the Netherlands) that means bout 10.000 pre-tax. And that is quite a lot, it is like a group manager (i.e. 50 people to manage) in a medium to large size company. Executive level is probably more. But not a lot.

Same in Sweden, about 10k pre tax to take home 5k. I looked up median salaries for CEOs in Sweden last year which was $7600 pre-tax where only service and the industrial sector is over that, industrial is the highest with $9150 pre-tax, that is at the CEO level, putting your take home salary with tax bracket 34 at about 5k/month, so it's probably a bit high for a high level executive at a mid-sized company.

Re: Climbing the Wealth Ladder

#239

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the labels are not very helpful, but tying each level to 0.01% of an individuals net worth is. For example, I still don't flinch at paying 1 or 2 dollars more for items at the grocery store, but I do for paying 10-20 dollars more for items at a restaurant. "Travel" can mean grey hounds and motels, or first-class flights and luxury hotels. Philanthropy can be donating $100,000 or giving a buck to a guy on the…

I agree with the concept of the levels, I disagree with the ordering - particularly the final one, because philanthropy is something that almost everyone can practice, it's an individual choice. The idea that you must first have your entire life laid out with a massive house and first class flights and stuff before you start helping others is deeply wrong IMO.

I think it boils down to the definition of "philanthropy", to a lot of people (self included) that's something billionaires do, the rest of us can try "charity".

Kind of like the old saw about only the poor are "crazy", with enough money you become "eccentric".

Re: Climbing the Wealth Ladder

#240

Earlier quoted context omitted.

does a swedish exec really make just $5000/month post tax? that's not much more than I net at my first software gig out of college (and not in SF or NYC).

According to wikipedia, average salary in Sweden is $2700 post tax ($3500 pre tax)

Sounds a bit high but could be right considering that median is usually a fair bit lower since the extremes being up the average quite a bit. However checking this years tax tables put our monthly $3500 pre-tax salary at $2600 take home (but this varies a bit from city to city).
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