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Ask HN: CS, still a good career in 3-5 years?

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Re: Ask HN: CS, still a good career in 3-5 years?

#51

Post by jacobolus »

omarhaneef wrote: post #10

CS isn't a career. CS is part of all careers. I imagine when cuneiform was first invented, there was a group of people who were the first writers and they probably worried that it would get saturated. How can we all be writers? There are only so many things to write down: recipes, shopping lists, the kings desires, and heroic tales. What are the rest of us going to do? But of course writing is just a way of expressin…

> I imagine when cuneiform was first invented, there was a group of people who were the first writers and they probably worried that it would get saturated. How can we all be writers? There are only so many things to write down: recipes, shopping lists, the kings desires, and heroic tales.

When cuneiform was invented the things to be written down were tax records, business transactions, beer recipes, legal codes, poems for various gods, lists of military spoils, multiplication tables, customer service complaints, teachers griping about their students being lazy, and students griping about their teachers being hardasses. e.g. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Complaint_tablet_to_Ea-nasir https://books.google.com/books?id=Nvgz3NOuo5EC&pg=PA230&lpg=...

Re: Ask HN: CS, still a good career in 3-5 years?

#52

Post by agentultra »

DoctorPenguin wrote: post #15
agentultra wrote: post #5

I've heard of people going from a bootcamp course straight into Google and optimizing 100% for the career path. They make embarrassingly more than I do, have been programming for a scant few years, and I couldn't care less. I've been programming for most of my life. I've poured hours into learning 6502, BASIC, 8086, C, C++, Perl, Python, Javascript, Common Lisp, Haskell... to say nothing of physics, linear algebra, g…

How can you not care for people working in the top tech while probably not even knowing half of what you have learned? Would you say the same thing when you would be another field of work; like medicine maybe?

I focus on myself. Am I better than I was yesterday? Three years ago? Good. Keep going.

We're not like doctors. There is no capital-P professional guild setting the bar for practitioners of software engineering. There are engineering guilds that recognize software development as a discipline that will accredit you if you meet their requirements and pay their dues. However it's often not mandatory for you to be accredited in order to practice software engineering. And it's not required that a company developing software employ a professional software engineer in order to conduct business. So hardly anyone seeks out accreditation.

In a free market you get companies like Google that need a large volume of people trained with vocational skills to churn out code in the various frameworks and tools. Doesn't bother me any.

I like to work on problems that are interesting and make the world a better place. You can't always do that at a Google or Netflix.

Re: Ask HN: CS, still a good career in 3-5 years?

#53

Post by davidajackson »

jlangemeier wrote: post #49

CS is already in the realm of unsustainable hours: crunch times that last for months; "free time projects" to get hired; everyone encouraged to have side hustle start ups, freelancing, or consulting work. And this is all doubly so for anything FAANG or FAANG adjacent. As for unsustainable competition like medicine, what do you think the needlessly ridiculous hurdles are for interviews (whiteboarding, regurgitating in…

>> "free time projects" to get hired

these are the companies to avoid in my experience

Re: Ask HN: CS, still a good career in 3-5 years?

#54

Post by Mangalor »

agentultra wrote: post #5

I've heard of people going from a bootcamp course straight into Google and optimizing 100% for the career path. They make embarrassingly more than I do, have been programming for a scant few years, and I couldn't care less. I've been programming for most of my life. I've poured hours into learning 6502, BASIC, 8086, C, C++, Perl, Python, Javascript, Common Lisp, Haskell... to say nothing of physics, linear algebra, g…

To be clear, courses such as "category theory" and abstract algebra are not required to be a good engineer.

Re: Ask HN: CS, still a good career in 3-5 years?

#55

Post by agentultra »

Mangalor wrote: post #54
agentultra wrote: post #5

I've heard of people going from a bootcamp course straight into Google and optimizing 100% for the career path. They make embarrassingly more than I do, have been programming for a scant few years, and I couldn't care less. I've been programming for most of my life. I've poured hours into learning 6502, BASIC, 8086, C, C++, Perl, Python, Javascript, Common Lisp, Haskell... to say nothing of physics, linear algebra, g…

To be clear, courses such as "category theory" and abstract algebra are not required to be a good engineer.

100% agree. Category theory is simply practical and something I came across through a combination of Haskell and Group theory.

I'm not trying to shame bootcamp grads or make any judgements about their skills if that's what you're implying. I think the free market is free to decide what they're willing to pay and we should treat it as such and not be upset if someone with a few months of experience with programming lands a job making more than we do.

My point was that your fiercest competition is with yourself. And CS is a valid career path with a lot of interesting options if you stick it out for the long race.

Re: Ask HN: CS, still a good career in 3-5 years?

#56

Post by slimed »

martinesko36 wrote: post #26
slimed wrote: post #16

It's really not a career path you should get into if you're just in it for the money. Your friends will probably wash out within 3-5 years after they figure out they're not actually interested in software engineering.

I think you underestimate what people will put themselves through to score a high-paying, high-status prestigious job (see: med school)

The thing about software engineering is that it doesn't require expensive post graduate education like med school. The barrier to entry is much lower. Many status seekers will eventually realize a few things about software:

1. Wait, I really have to look at this screen most of the day? 2. The pay check is nice, but the job itself isn't high status. I'm treated like a grunt 3. I have my whole life ahead of me, plenty of income, and a degree from a top school. I can leap frog to another position in the company, or go back and get my masters.

Re: Ask HN: CS, still a good career in 3-5 years?

#57

Post by jlangemeier »

davidajackson wrote: post #53
jlangemeier wrote: post #49

CS is already in the realm of unsustainable hours: crunch times that last for months; "free time projects" to get hired; everyone encouraged to have side hustle start ups, freelancing, or consulting work. And this is all doubly so for anything FAANG or FAANG adjacent. As for unsustainable competition like medicine, what do you think the needlessly ridiculous hurdles are for interviews (whiteboarding, regurgitating in…

>> "free time projects" to get hired these are the companies to avoid in my experience

Yup mine too, but that rules out a lot of FAANG adjacent companies and start-ups which isn't tenable for some peoples' interests. I gave up on that chase for stability, weekends and holidays actually off, no on call schedule, and long term benefits.

Re: Ask HN: CS, still a good career in 3-5 years?

#58

Post by metanoia »

jl2718 wrote: post #28

I was a kid programmer and it sounded crazy to spend college learning to code. I studied anything and everything else. More interesting, but not a good resume-building strategy.

Modified for myself: I was a kid programmer and my parents thought it sounded crazy to spend college learning to code. I studied pre-med but didn't go to med school.

This was in 1998 for me, and at that age I didn't know how to push back on my parents. Good 'ol Asian parents didn't know anything out of the big 3 (Doctor, Lawyer, [Licensed] Engineer). Still going to therapy for that.

I am now in a software engineering job as a TL but I'd say I'm about 8 years behind in my SWE career, after soujourns in a microbiology lab, food manufacturing, retail inventory planning, and then product management in retail, and then to engineering. To be fair, this might still be the case as the dot-com implosion happened just before I graduated from college.

I have amazing, varied experience as both an IC and people manager, but I don't have the ticket known as a CS degree. I'm thankful for the path I've taken but eventually I will have to make a jump to a "real" tech company, and I can't say that I don't have some apprehension about my lack of formal CS training, as well as age.

Re: Ask HN: CS, still a good career in 3-5 years?

#59

Post by shantly »

anon9001 wrote: post #33

It entirely depends what you're trying to do. If you want to make a bunch of money, it's unfortunately more about politics and luck than merit. If you're trying to maximize income, you should focus on understanding finance/business and building soft skills. You're probably over the threshold of how much you need to know about computers. Maybe get some training on how to work better with others, or how to negotiate ef…

> If you're trying to maximize income, you should focus on understanding finance/business and building soft skills. You're probably over the threshold of how much you need to know about computers. Maybe get some training on how to work better with others, or how to negotiate effectively. In other words, soft skills are going to be the value you have over your peers that have been cramming CS for the last 4 years.

This. Outside of FAANG(-alikes) and some finance software work, the real money remains on the business side. Managing others. Presenting & selling ideas. Communicating. Knowing some computer shit is a big bonus but isn't what'll get you the big bucks. It'll usually get you the medium bucks, though, before topping out, which ain't the worst.

You'll also need that to go independent (start a business, start a consultancy, high-end freelancing) which is a third way (pure Tech in a handful of businesses; tech + people skills anywhere else; be your own employer) to make real money doing this stuff.

Re: Ask HN: CS, still a good career in 3-5 years?

#60

Post by draw_down »

agentultra wrote: post #5

I've heard of people going from a bootcamp course straight into Google and optimizing 100% for the career path. They make embarrassingly more than I do, have been programming for a scant few years, and I couldn't care less. I've been programming for most of my life. I've poured hours into learning 6502, BASIC, 8086, C, C++, Perl, Python, Javascript, Common Lisp, Haskell... to say nothing of physics, linear algebra, g…

I've been programming most of my life too, and I absolutely care how much I make from my job. This other stuff is for the birds.

Attempting to reach an absolute maximum for pay will probably be a bad time, but you can decide on the level of effort you're willing to put in and then maximize compensation for that.

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