Engineer says Google fired her for notifying co-workers of right to organize • Hacker News Board

Re: Engineer says Google fired her for notifying co-workers of right to organize

#451

Post by raxxorrax » Tue, Dec 17, 2019, 5:10 PM UTC

decebalus1 wrote: post #200

shantly wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Giant piles of money. Probably still gets you an easy CTO title at a startup after 2-4 years at Google.

> Giant piles of money. Not anymore, really. It was the case a couple of years ago but right now, for rank-and-file employees, Google downlevels heavily and targets around 80% of the market rate. For some reason, people are still flocking at their doors and because of high supply of candidates, they can afford to be both very selective and very cheap.

Probably still a net plus if you have Google on your resume and decide to look elsewhere.

Re: Engineer says Google fired her for notifying co-workers of right to organize

#452

Post by shadowgovt » Tue, Dec 17, 2019, 5:10 PM UTC

Vysero wrote: post #442

helen___keller wrote: post #265

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agreed with this at first, but according to her medium post ( https://medium.com/@ksspiers/google-fires-another-worker-for... ) "Part of my job was to write browser notifications so that my coworkers can be automatically notified of employee guidelines and company policies while they surf the web" If this is true and her job is literally to create javascript notifications of company policy, then I think it's entire…

In my mind this is the hinge or the crux of the issue. If it was her job to create and inject JavaScript notifications of company policy and they fired her for doing that then shame on Google. Actually, it would be more than just shame on Google. If this is true, then I would say Google is not a safe place to work for anybody. Which is why I find it hard to believe that this was actually in her job description and or…

Unfortunately, I'm leaning toward the other interpretation these days: Google management does not want their software engineers unionized but doesn't have experience to know how to deal with it legally, so they've hired strikebreaking lawyers and given them a lot of leeway on firing calls.

Re: Engineer says Google fired her for notifying co-workers of right to organize

#453

Post by s1artibartfast » Tue, Dec 17, 2019, 5:10 PM UTC

drakonka wrote: post #409

It feels weird for me to read comments in this thread debating about and assuming a simple note about unionization or organization by an employee whose job it was to do exactly this kind of thing is "not in good faith" or a "violation". In my mind this kind of thing has the same sentiment as _any_ policy notice. The world in which notifying people that they have the right to organize is a "violation" is a really mess…

>by an employee whose job it was to do exactly this kind of thing..

I think this is the crux of the issue and people are making up the facts they don't have to fit a narrative.

There is a reasonable difference between security notifications and other corporate policies.

Were any non-security notifications in scope for their job or the tool used?

Is there precedent for google flagging specific external websites with HR policy notices?

Re: Engineer says Google fired her for notifying co-workers of right to organize

#454

Post by shadowgovt » Tue, Dec 17, 2019, 5:11 PM UTC

tanilama wrote: post #446

helen___keller wrote: post #265

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agreed with this at first, but according to her medium post ( https://medium.com/@ksspiers/google-fires-another-worker-for... ) "Part of my job was to write browser notifications so that my coworkers can be automatically notified of employee guidelines and company policies while they surf the web" If this is true and her job is literally to create javascript notifications of company policy, then I think it's entire…

> Part of my job was to write browser notifications so that my coworkers can be automatically notified of employee guidelines and company policies while they surf the web She needs to understand this power isn't her own to wield. And the risk of people abusing power to advance their personal agenda is NOT something that would get passed easily once discovered.

As a Googler, it's not only her power to wield, it's her job description to make discerning calls.

Re: Engineer says Google fired her for notifying co-workers of right to organize

#455

Post by w0m » Tue, Dec 17, 2019, 5:11 PM UTC

throwaway2048 wrote: post #108

IshKebab wrote: post #9

> I was doing nothing more than notifying my co-workers about Google's obligations under labor law > Kathryn Spiers updated an internal Chrome browser extension so that each time Google employees visited the website of IRI Consultants — the Troy, Michigan, firm that Google hired this year amid a groundswell of labor activism at the company — they would see a pop-up message that read: “Googlers have the right to parti…

This extension popping up messages on various sites was a completely normal thing for it to do, she simply added another message.

unrelated to actual purpose of the tool; she co-opted internal security tool for a personal soap box and pushed it to the entire company. That's a clear violation of trust in her job role.

Re: Engineer says Google fired her for notifying co-workers of right to organize

#456

Post by [deleted] » Tue, Dec 17, 2019, 5:12 PM UTC

jpmontez wrote: post #34

kache_ wrote: post #7

>Kathryn Spiers, who worked as a security engineer, updated an internal Chrome browser extension so that each time Google employees visited the website of IRI Consultants — the Troy, Michigan, firm that Google hired this year amid a groundswell of labor activism at the company — they would see a pop-up message that read: “Googlers have the right to participate in protected concerted activities.” You should get fired…

"Spiers, 21, said she went through the standard approval process, which requires two co-workers to greenlight changes, before updating the Chrome browser extension. Another source at Google familiar with the update approval process confirmed to NBC news that those two approvals are standard practice for a browser extension update." She alleges it was done by the book.

[deleted]

Re: Engineer says Google fired her for notifying co-workers of right to organize

#457

Post by tanilama » Tue, Dec 17, 2019, 5:12 PM UTC

ramraj07 wrote: post #76

I was initially tempted to side with Google, a code review process is not just rigorous enough for catching features being sneaked in. However, it looks like the sole purpose of the extension is to warn employees about security issues in websites, and this engineer coopted that to show a union forming message. The final paragraph suggests that there's legal precedence for doing this: “You’re allowed to put posters up…

But everyone's laptop is NO public place, and this extension is installed under the endorsement and requirement of the company.

For someone who doesn't agree with her message, this is best case to shove a message down your throat, worst case a security breach to their computer.

Re: Engineer says Google fired her for notifying co-workers of right to organize

#458

Post by dmix » Tue, Dec 17, 2019, 5:13 PM UTC

givinguflac wrote: post #216

dmix wrote: post #163

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The purpose of the extension within Google is to notify you of privacy and security risks for potentially dangerous websites. The comment she injected into a benign law website has nothing to do with that and whether there was some weak approval process that missed this glaring fact doesn’t make it okay.

“Benign law website”, “anti-union PR firm” tomato, potatoe.

In the English languages words are understood in the context they are used. In this case it was obviously about security and privacy. So it's a nice attempt at spin but much like other attempts at defending this behaviour that's all it really is. A whole lot of spin to justify it via the ends while glossing over the completely unprofessional means.

Re: Engineer says Google fired her for notifying co-workers of right to organize

#459

Post by tehjoker » Tue, Dec 17, 2019, 5:13 PM UTC

ajross wrote: post #354

ramblerman wrote: post #300

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Really? So if I hire you to email out my monthly company statement it’s reasonable that you add some of your own thoughts to said email.

Yes, really. How about the converse: what if Google used it's ability to control employees' email to send messages on their behalf arguing against unionization? Part of the right of free speech is correctness of attribution. Trying to speak as someone else, using someone else's communication channels isn't speech, it's fraud. And I say that as (at least within the spectrum of folks on this site) a full on pinko commi…

Workers need to be willing to break the law in order to win victories against the people that make the laws. Employers aren't even the law, this is such a small thing and is defensible. I don't see a reason to side with Google at all, if they really vociferously disagreed, they could ask her to remove the notification.

Re: Engineer says Google fired her for notifying co-workers of right to organize

#460

Post by w0m » Tue, Dec 17, 2019, 5:13 PM UTC

kords wrote: post #241

>“We dismissed an employee who abused privileged access to modify an internal security tool,” a Google spokeswoman said in a statement, adding that it was “a serious violation.” This doesn't sounds like privileged access, it sounds more like they have issues with their pipeline. If all what it takes for code to get in Production(even if it's internal), is at least two approvals, I think that's a bigger problem.

Partially true, her code reviewers should have said, 'hey - that popup isn't the point of the . tool' and nixed it there.

She was a member of the group maintaining that toola and abused her authority for a personal crusade; hence terminated.