Engineer says Google fired her for notifying co-workers of right to organize • Hacker News Board

Re: Engineer says Google fired her for notifying co-workers of right to organize

#431

Post by yorwba » Tue, Dec 17, 2019, 4:55 PM UTC

SpicyLemonZest wrote: post #359

claudeganon wrote: post #332

Earlier quoted context omitted.

By giving you greater control and direction over the nature of the company, the kind of work they do, and who they work with, to check executive power from engaging in short-sighted or immoral behavior, to provide you with an alternate route for addressing workplace discrimination or harassment, just to begin.

A union doesn't give me, personally, any control or direction or checks on executive power. Union leaders have those powers. And it's not obvious to me why the union leaders would be any more aligned with my interests than management is.

Those union leaders are hopefully elected by employees (otherwise, how do they get to be leaders?) so you can align the union leadership with your interests by voting for someone whom you trust to represent you. Of course you don't need that if management is also elected, but I don't know of any company that does that.

Re: Engineer says Google fired her for notifying co-workers of right to organize

#432

Post by CharlesColeman » Tue, Dec 17, 2019, 4:57 PM UTC

TravHatesMe wrote: post #273

vintermann wrote: post #248

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why bite the hand that feeds you? Why the struggle, why the strain? Why make trouble, why make scenes? Why go against the grain, why swim upstream? It ain't, it ain't, it ain't no use You're bound, you're bound, you're bound to lose What's done, what's done, what's done is done That's the way the river runs So why get wet? Why break a sweat? Why waste your precious breath? Why beat your handsome brow? Nothing changes…

I like this. Where is it from? In response to it: You can't apply this to everything, you need to pick you battles. There might be better means to an end.

> I like this. Where is it from?

It appears to be from: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hadestown_(musical)

It looks like it's sung in the voice of the Fates from Greek mythology.

Re: Engineer says Google fired her for notifying co-workers of right to organize

#433

Post by calcifer » Tue, Dec 17, 2019, 4:57 PM UTC

scarface74 wrote: post #301

MrLeap wrote: post #271

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"But you can’t follow me to the bathroom stall and keep telling me." "plaster it on everyone's screen" did you read the same article I did? The alert was triggered off a single consultancy's site. I really doubt it was a common hang out spot.

She was using a security tool to spread her message. Does that seem appropriate to you?

You keep moving the goalposts every time someone refutes one of your points.

> Does that seem appropriate to you?

Yes. It's a tool for showing notifications related to the page being visited. Not to mention the whole thing is appropriate on moral grounds, regardless of any technicality.

Re: Engineer says Google fired her for notifying co-workers of right to organize

#434

Post by Ocerge » Tue, Dec 17, 2019, 4:57 PM UTC

settsu wrote: post #361

helen___keller wrote: post #233

From the engineer's medium post: > For example, someone changed the default desktop wallpaper during the walkout last year so that the Linux penguin was holding a protest sign. The company has never reacted aggressively in response to a notification such as this in the past. It’s always been a celebrated part of the culture. I suppose this was her mistake: ""It's always been a celebrated part of the culture" Google c…

> But I would never implement that kind of notification like she had done, not without written approval from my boss and maybe my bosses' boss to cover my ass. If this is something that goes through your mind, the organization you are at is broken and probably dangerously hostile.

The entire landscape of being a wage slave is "dangerously hostile". I can't think of any place I've ever worked where I would think this was a good idea if I wanted to keep my job. Not saying I agree that I should lose my job for organizing in this manner, just saying the net you're casting is probably too narrow.

Re: Engineer says Google fired her for notifying co-workers of right to organize

#435

Post by boomlinde » Tue, Dec 17, 2019, 4:57 PM UTC

BoorishBears wrote: post #417

boomlinde wrote: post #401

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It's not even the message itself, I don't want politics, even those I agree with, living in the codebase I use at work. You should probably not work at Google.

I know, was that supposed to be a revelation? I work at a place full of xooglers and other ex-faangs, and get the benefits of working with talented people without these kinds of scandals.

> I know, was that supposed to be a revelation?

No, more to point out that it's a weird concern to have about an internal tool used by a company that uses their code to exert huge, global political influence. It's a strangely specific grain of rice to make an issue of.

Re: Engineer says Google fired her for notifying co-workers of right to organize

#436

Post by blackearl » Tue, Dec 17, 2019, 4:58 PM UTC

asdfasgasdgasdg wrote: post #416

C14L wrote: post #329

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Was she hired to only add things other people told her to add? Or was she hired to add things she considered relevant?

A little of the former and a little of the latter, most likely. However, that doesn't mean her judgment r.e. what is relevant is immune to review. And if it's sufficiently incorrect, consequences like what happened shouldn't be surprising.

I'd disagree. Another post shows stellar performance reviews, so if this is considered a mistake, it should be remedied and she should be reprimanded. Outright firing seems heavy handed

Re: Engineer says Google fired her for notifying co-workers of right to organize

#437

Post by scarlac » Tue, Dec 17, 2019, 4:59 PM UTC

thinkingemote wrote: post #368

kache_ wrote: post #7

>Kathryn Spiers, who worked as a security engineer, updated an internal Chrome browser extension so that each time Google employees visited the website of IRI Consultants — the Troy, Michigan, firm that Google hired this year amid a groundswell of labor activism at the company — they would see a pop-up message that read: “Googlers have the right to participate in protected concerted activities.” You should get fired…

The spyware was designed to pop up notifications on visiting URLs to users, she just added another message for a url. "Part of my job was to write browser notifications so that my coworkers can be automatically notified of employee guidelines and company policies while they surf the web. " I'd be curious to know what URLs employees get alerts about? Perhaps services which do not take kindly to seeing IPs from Google…

The notice was added to a relevant page (a work organisation consultant webpage), from what it looks: https://medium.com/@ksspiers/google-fires-another-worker-for...

Re: Engineer says Google fired her for notifying co-workers of right to organize

#438

Post by calcifer » Tue, Dec 17, 2019, 4:59 PM UTC

scarface74 wrote: post #80

Maxion wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's quite a stretch to call this a political issue.

Unionization is definitely a political issue.

She didn't tell them join a union. All she did was informing people that they have a legal right to organize.

Re: Engineer says Google fired her for notifying co-workers of right to organize

#439

Post by chance_state » Tue, Dec 17, 2019, 4:59 PM UTC

gvx wrote: post #378

I'm constantly baffled by how anti-union many Americans are, how willing to give up their rights.

My impression of these tech unionization efforts are that they're mostly about pushing a social/political agenda, with workers rights being an afterthought.

Every single time I see these posts the involved employees are activist LGBT folks.

Am I wrong here? Why do all these issues seem to stem from the same group of people?

Re: Engineer says Google fired her for notifying co-workers of right to organize

#440

Post by cryoshon » Tue, Dec 17, 2019, 4:59 PM UTC

vintermann wrote: post #248

TravHatesMe wrote: post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is a good question. Is this a fireable offense regardless of the content? If not, what kind of content is fireable, subject matter that is political, religious, vulgar, or offensive? Putting this into an internal tool does seem unprofessional in my opinion. Why bite the hand that feeds you?

Why bite the hand that feeds you? Why the struggle, why the strain? Why make trouble, why make scenes? Why go against the grain, why swim upstream? It ain't, it ain't, it ain't no use You're bound, you're bound, you're bound to lose What's done, what's done, what's done is done That's the way the river runs So why get wet? Why break a sweat? Why waste your precious breath? Why beat your handsome brow? Nothing changes…

i get the sentiment here, but i think i prefer machiavelli's way of phrasing it: do not strike your opponent a blow they will recover from.