Earlier quoted context omitted.
She wasn’t being fired for “unionizing”. She was being fired for abusing her access.
RTFA. They were literally doing their job.
It wasn’t the security team’s job to disseminate information about unions.
Engineer says Google fired her for notifying co-workers of right to organize
371–380 of 779 posts
Re: Engineer says Google fired her for notifying co-workers of right to organize
#372Earlier quoted context omitted.
Exactly what does union activism have to do with security and privacy of potentially dangerous websites? I’m surprised how many people are jumping through hoops to defend this sort of thing.
If the message was "I baked cookies, come by my office if you'd like to try some" do you think this person would similarly be fired? A person that was recently promoted, was designated as a high performer, (and I have nothing to back this up but seemed strategically recruited since they did not fit the google mould as a high school drop out?) I think a reasonable reaction would be to remove the message from the exten…
> "If the message was "I baked cookies, come by my office if you'd like to try some" do you think this person would similarly be fired? "
Yes, immediately and for cause. Internal business apps at large companies are not your personal playground.
Re: Engineer says Google fired her for notifying co-workers of right to organize
#373From the engineer's medium post: > For example, someone changed the default desktop wallpaper during the walkout last year so that the Linux penguin was holding a protest sign. The company has never reacted aggressively in response to a notification such as this in the past. It’s always been a celebrated part of the culture. I suppose this was her mistake: ""It's always been a celebrated part of the culture" Google c…
> But I would never implement that kind of notification like she had done, not without written approval from my boss and maybe my bosses' boss to cover my ass. If this is something that goes through your mind, the organization you are at is broken and probably dangerously hostile.
No, this is just the truth of working at BigCorp. Most engineers can pretend office politics doesn't exist because they're working in primarily nonpolitical roles. But office politics exists, for any office. And unionization is political.
Re: Engineer says Google fired her for notifying co-workers of right to organize
#374Earlier quoted context omitted.
It feels like a lot of astro-turfing going on here. Why would any sane person be against unions?
I strongly oppose public unions. Unions are good for private companies, as there is a balance of powers - if the owners pay employees too little, employees quit, whereas if the employees protest too much, the company doesn't sell anything - both scenarios lead to collapse / bankrupcy, so both sides are motivated to cooperate and find a compromise. In public services, there is no such balance - the state isn't constra…
"...The very nature and purposes of Government make it impossible for administrative officials to represent fully or to bind the employer in mutual discussions with Government employee organizations. The employer is the whole people, who speak by means of laws enacted by their representatives in Congress. Accordingly, administrative officials and employees alike are governed and guided, and in many instances restricted, by laws which establish policies, procedures, or rules in personnel matters."
-FDR Letter on the Resolution of Federation of Federal Employees Against Strikes in Federal Service
I think we've seen this play out in how public unions now dominate policy discussions putting the public good as an often secondary consideration.
Re: Engineer says Google fired her for notifying co-workers of right to organize
#375Earlier quoted context omitted.
Prefixing this by saying I am not siding with Google (since people make assumptions). The standard approval process sounds like most merge review processes on any engineering team. There's a sort of assumed good-faith for this process. The fact that 2 coworkers were fine with your change doesn't mean it was made in good-faith and was within the bounds of normal types of changes. Any engineer with the freedom to make…
She went through the corporate approved process with her changes. Her only mistake here is being pro union while Google is decidedly anti-union and pro-worker-abuse.
Yikes make room for someone who wants to do the job
Re: Engineer says Google fired her for notifying co-workers of right to organize
#376Earlier quoted context omitted.
I'd agree, it sounds a lot like a code review, but at Google that was also the approval standard for deploying such an extension. I don't really see how Google could be in the right here though. If they have an internal program for creating alerts/extensions for specific websites, and Spiers followed the normal procedure for adding such an extension, there doesn't seem to be a problem. The only problem is Google bein…
The tool was for privacy and security, not advocacy right? Sounds like she abused her position as a security engineer.
How on earth is being notified of your legal rights "advocacy"?
Re: Engineer says Google fired her for notifying co-workers of right to organize
#377Earlier quoted context omitted.
> Or would she have received a slap on the wrist for that. Or would she have received a pat on the back, given that she went through the Standard Procedure for adding a feature to the browser plug-in?
Sounds like she went through standard procedure to add code, but the feature was not sanctioned by management.... i.e. if you work on a payment system, add you add code to siphon sub-cent rounding "errors" to a "settlement" account, said code may pass review (because it looks legit to code reviewers), but I bet management would be pissed at the change if not prior approved.
Not cool to equate a notification of rights, to a crime (theft).
Re: Engineer says Google fired her for notifying co-workers of right to organize
#378I'm constantly baffled by how anti-union many Americans are, how willing to give up their rights.
Re: Engineer says Google fired her for notifying co-workers of right to organize
#379Earlier quoted context omitted.
Certainly bold and perhaps ill-advised, but I would hardly characterize this as "injection" > Spiers told NBC News that she was inspired to create a digital notification because “a poster in the cafeteria is not the best way of reaching the majority of Googlers.” > The message included a link to a statement that the NLRB required the company to post for employees following the settlement of a complaint that was filed…
Prefixing this by saying I am not siding with Google (since people make assumptions). The standard approval process sounds like most merge review processes on any engineering team. There's a sort of assumed good-faith for this process. The fact that 2 coworkers were fine with your change doesn't mean it was made in good-faith and was within the bounds of normal types of changes. Any engineer with the freedom to make…
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Re: Engineer says Google fired her for notifying co-workers of right to organize
#380Did no one read the article? > Spiers, 21, said she went through the standard approval process, which requires two co-workers to greenlight changes, before updating the Chrome browser extension. Another source at Google familiar with the update approval process confirmed to NBC news that those two approvals are standard practice for a browser extension update. She did it exactly according to internal policy. The exte…
> She did it exactly according to internal policy. I don't think this person or the other organizers should have been fired, but code review is not the same as organizational approval. (Disclosure: I work at Google, speaking only for myself)
It doesn't really matter if google would approve. There are a lot of activities that would not be organizationally approved, but are protected concerted activities and it would be unlawful to fire someone for.