Engineer says Google fired her for notifying co-workers of right to organize • Hacker News Board

Re: Engineer says Google fired her for notifying co-workers of right to organize

#71

Post by ixtli » Tue, Dec 17, 2019, 2:41 PM UTC

acollins1331 wrote: post #39

kache_ wrote: post #7

>Kathryn Spiers, who worked as a security engineer, updated an internal Chrome browser extension so that each time Google employees visited the website of IRI Consultants — the Troy, Michigan, firm that Google hired this year amid a groundswell of labor activism at the company — they would see a pop-up message that read: “Googlers have the right to participate in protected concerted activities.” You should get fired…

You either can't read or you're a shill. Sucks you can't delete HN comments huh.

Shocking the speed with which individual people will jump to the defense of billion dollar companies.

Re: Engineer says Google fired her for notifying co-workers of right to organize

#72

Post by deegles » Tue, Dec 17, 2019, 2:41 PM UTC

Maxion wrote: post #27

iwantagrinder wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Did you not read the part where she did, where she followed the process by the book and it was approved? Or did you just have your mind made up to decide to side with Google instead?

I'm honestly a little surprised (and worried) about all the commenters who argue Google is in the right here.

The paranoid part of me thinks it might be PR firms they’ve hired.

Re: Engineer says Google fired her for notifying co-workers of right to organize

#73

Post by mc32 » Tue, Dec 17, 2019, 2:41 PM UTC

skywhopper wrote: post #28

cj wrote: post #5

> Kathryn Spiers, who worked as a security engineer, updated an internal Chrome browser extension so that each time Google employees visited the website of IRI Consultants — the Troy, Michigan, firm that Google hired this year amid a groundswell of labor activism at the company — they would see a pop-up message that read: “Googlers have the right to participate in protected concerted activities.” So basically, the Go…

Sure, but the question is, would they react this way if the injected content was something else?

So.... this is interesting. The answer is if they are strict authoritarians and go by the book, yes. There is no leeway. If they are flexible and are open to interpretation and intent then no... but then that leaves them open to risk.

Because of that most companies over time become very strict and unforgiving.

Re: Engineer says Google fired her for notifying co-workers of right to organize

#74

Post by scarface74 » Tue, Dec 17, 2019, 2:42 PM UTC

save_ferris wrote: post #38

kawfey wrote: post #18

Bad headline. It should read "Engineer fired her for abusing privileged access to modify an internal security tool." That's a pretty dumb way to notify co-workers of their right to organize, but I guess it's a really good way to get fired and draw up a big media stink about it.

Wrong. She went through the standard review process to get the notification change out. Read the article.

And the “standard review process” was to get approval from two coworkers. Does this even pass any type of bar of what is acceptable behavior?

Re: Engineer says Google fired her for notifying co-workers of right to organize

#75

Post by kop316 » Tue, Dec 17, 2019, 2:42 PM UTC

danso wrote: post #66

kop316 wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This was the process: "the standard approval process, which requires two co-workers to greenlight changes" In my company, I could put in travel orders to let me go to and from Hawaii on the company dime, have a vacation, and have my supervisor approve (which is following the standard process), but doing that should get me in a lot of trouble and/or fired.

Sorry, but could you clarify what you would be fired for in your hypothetical situation? Presumably, it's not automatically against company policy to expense a trip to Hawaii.

I was implying I took the trip to vacation, not to do work. Sorry if that wasn't clear.

Re: Engineer says Google fired her for notifying co-workers of right to organize

#76

Post by ramraj07 » Tue, Dec 17, 2019, 2:42 PM UTC

I was initially tempted to side with Google, a code review process is not just rigorous enough for catching features being sneaked in.

However, it looks like the sole purpose of the extension is to warn employees about security issues in websites, and this engineer coopted that to show a union forming message.

The final paragraph suggests that there's legal precedence for doing this:

“You’re allowed to put posters up on the wall to help organize your workers, and this can be seen as kind of a digital extension of that,” said Veena Dubal, a professor at the University of California’s Hastings College of the Law in San Francisco. “Whether or not you’re in a union or there’s a union being formed, the law protects organizing activities by employees in the workplace organizing to improve their working conditions.”

Re: Engineer says Google fired her for notifying co-workers of right to organize

#77

Post by 0x445442 » Tue, Dec 17, 2019, 2:42 PM UTC

save_ferris wrote: post #38

kawfey wrote: post #18

Bad headline. It should read "Engineer fired her for abusing privileged access to modify an internal security tool." That's a pretty dumb way to notify co-workers of their right to organize, but I guess it's a really good way to get fired and draw up a big media stink about it.

Wrong. She went through the standard review process to get the notification change out. Read the article.

Well the article didn't really go into details. When I read it I got the idea she got two thumbs up on a merge request which is a far sight from getting approval from introducing a new feature by some change management board.

I suspect the details of what really happened would be quite illuminating.

Re: Engineer says Google fired her for notifying co-workers of right to organize

#78

Post by kawfey » Tue, Dec 17, 2019, 2:42 PM UTC

iwantagrinder wrote: post #22

kawfey wrote: post #18

Bad headline. It should read "Engineer fired her for abusing privileged access to modify an internal security tool." That's a pretty dumb way to notify co-workers of their right to organize, but I guess it's a really good way to get fired and draw up a big media stink about it.

Did you not read the part where she did, where she followed the process by the book and it was approved? Or did you just have your mind made up to decide to side with Google instead?

If my company's handbook on privileged access is anything like Google's, it's completely against the rules to do something like this, even if it's for a noble or worthy cause for its employees, even if other employee's must sign off on the change. Our employee agreement comes with an NDA that tells us to not speak bad about the company, and insubordination of this has resulted in firings just from social media criticism.

I'm not siding with Google, but I'm not siding with her either. The facts and evidence presented to me don't give me an impression that Google was in the wrong by firing her. My opinion will change if I see that the guiding principles or Employee handbook that led Google to this decision are not in agreement.

Re: Engineer says Google fired her for notifying co-workers of right to organize

#79

Post by baud147258 » Tue, Dec 17, 2019, 2:43 PM UTC

Maxion wrote: post #53

scarface74 wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I doubt thats the spirit of the rule. I would no more want that injected into my browser than any other political message.

It's quite a stretch to call this a political issue.

I don't know about you, but "Googlers have the right to participate in protected concerted activities." seems pretty political to me.

Personally I think that modifying a work tool to achieve political goals is wrong.

Re: Engineer says Google fired her for notifying co-workers of right to organize

#80

Post by scarface74 » Tue, Dec 17, 2019, 2:43 PM UTC

Maxion wrote: post #53

scarface74 wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I doubt thats the spirit of the rule. I would no more want that injected into my browser than any other political message.

It's quite a stretch to call this a political issue.

Unionization is definitely a political issue.