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France's AMF watchdog fines Bloomberg €5M over Vinci hoax

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Re: France's AMF watchdog fines Bloomberg €5M over Vinci hoax

#31
post #3

In today's world of race to the finish (/ bottom) journalism, I think it should be mandatory for all publications to have an addendum to each article, which contains: * list of sources of information and original research conducted ( including names of interviewees, only anonymized with a justification, links, etc ) * a sign-off by a journalist (note: not supposed to imply responsibility or liability for accuracy of…

Fascinating. So that’s how well-intentioned people kill the free press.

Re: France's AMF watchdog fines Bloomberg €5M over Vinci hoax

#32
post #13
post #3

In today's world of race to the finish (/ bottom) journalism, I think it should be mandatory for all publications to have an addendum to each article, which contains: * list of sources of information and original research conducted ( including names of interviewees, only anonymized with a justification, links, etc ) * a sign-off by a journalist (note: not supposed to imply responsibility or liability for accuracy of…

Well-respected publications have internal checks and balances that do all these things for investigative stories already. You seem not to know enough about how the journalism industry has solved these issues to make a proposal. The system does work fairly well. Screw-ups of investigations and scoops are big news because they're rare among serious journalistic outfits. No individual journalist wants to be known for ge…

Especially the online versions of those "well respected publications" publish unverified things all the time. Often they get taken down or completely rewritten within half an hour, and of course are worded in a very speculative way from the start.

There are also countless of "articles" in those (like the NYT, WaPo, WSJ) that are nothing more than a press release with some shallow context sprinkled in, without any independent verification or actual journalistic work.

This doesn't provide a risk of publishing false information ("we are just reporting on the press release"), but is often misleading and of little value to the reader.

At the minimum a list of sources with a link to the press release (and probably nothing/little else) would make it easy to see that a article is nothing more than a shill PR.

Re: France's AMF watchdog fines Bloomberg €5M over Vinci hoax

#33
post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well-respected publications have internal checks and balances that do all these things for investigative stories already. You seem not to know enough about how the journalism industry has solved these issues to make a proposal. The system does work fairly well. Screw-ups of investigations and scoops are big news because they're rare among serious journalistic outfits. No individual journalist wants to be known for ge…

> No individual journalist wants to be known for getting a story wrong, so incentives are pretty strong to begin with. I think in a lot of places this isn't nearly as true as maybe it once was. The top selling newspapers in the UK pretty much habitually print anything that drives sales / their agenda and when they get a slap on the wrist they just print a minimal viable retraction. When that occasionally lands them i…

The top selling newspapers in the UK are tabloids though, rather than well-respected publications. I don't think that contradicts smt88's point.

Re: France's AMF watchdog fines Bloomberg €5M over Vinci hoax

#34
post #7
post #3

In today's world of race to the finish (/ bottom) journalism, I think it should be mandatory for all publications to have an addendum to each article, which contains: * list of sources of information and original research conducted ( including names of interviewees, only anonymized with a justification, links, etc ) * a sign-off by a journalist (note: not supposed to imply responsibility or liability for accuracy of…

Only because there doesn't seem any way to fuck this up right now, doesn't mean there, in fact, isn't. The ongoing pattern is that "at the time it seemed like the right thing to publish", when in fact it's just about spinning the spin. You can't prove how certain the publishers were about their spin at the time of publishing, not even with your suggested solution, that I guess, would only get more journalists fired,…

> The ongoing pattern is that "at the time it seemed like the right thing to publish", when in fact it's just about spinning the spin.

This reminds me something I read recently: The Court concluded that "because the articles in their entirety were substantially true at the time they were published—even though the investigators' suspicions were ultimately deemed unfounded—they cannot form the basis of a defamation action.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_Jewell

Re: France's AMF watchdog fines Bloomberg €5M over Vinci hoax

#35
post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> list of sources of information and original research conducted This is something that is ostensibly already in a typical article. Or are you suggesting that the reporter list everything that was researched, and every one who was talked to, regardless if it made it into the published version of the article?

> This is something that is ostensibly already in a typical article. It really isn't though. Most sources are not mentioned in a typical article. Prominent interviewees are mentioned by name, but more often then not information comes from a quick Google search, someone not established enough to be mentioned (eg you would mention a professor, but not a young research assistant/secretary), or even Reddit. Not to mentio…

> but more often then not information comes from a quick Google search

Sure, and this info should be attributed to the reporter, who gets full blame when it's wrong. Though I do agree it'd be nice (in a world where the First Amendment didn't exist) if there were a rule banning such weasel phrasing such as "Some say that" and "according to several experts [who are never named or specifically referred to]"

As for articles being a rewrite of press releases or other articles; yes, that's obviously an issue, and one that many journalists get irate about. But even in most of those cases, the sourcing is clear: "[Regurgitated rewrite of news lede], as first reported by the New York Times [link to original article]".

But for the archetypical article containing original reporting, here's an example of how a source involved in an article might not get listed:

Original article: https://www.nytimes.com/2019/11/03/business/drunk-driving-br...

Behind-the-scenes writeup that acknowledges an expert who isn't named in the article: https://www.nytimes.com/2019/11/03/reader-center/breathalyze...

The reason why the expert wasn't named, even though he was very helpful throughout the reporting process, was because the article's ultimately relied on the content of original documents. The expert helped lead the reporters to those documents, but his expert opinion was not needed and thus not cited for the article's authoritative conclusions.

It's true that reporters often won't credit where they first got a tip or where they saw something. But if they do their own parallel reconstruction – e.g. they first read an anecdote from a viral tweet/Reddit thread, but then they track down the original source themselves – as a reader, I ultimately care who the reporter and their editor explicitly say they vetted/vouch for, when it comes to the published version of the info.

Re: France's AMF watchdog fines Bloomberg €5M over Vinci hoax

#36
There is no real penalty for publishing fake news as if it was truth. Whole websites and media companies do it as a matter of course (often for political or manipulative purposes). 5.6M to Bloomberg is pocket change. There are of course still journalists with a burning desire to report the truth, but it's far easier and profitable to ignore it today.

When the internet started we all thought that the truth would finally prevail only to find out the non-truth is easier to amplify.

Re: France's AMF watchdog fines Bloomberg €5M over Vinci hoax

#37
post #26
post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are blasphemy laws for instance. Right to be forgotten. Etc.

Which means that freedom of speech is (in some cases) limited because of the religious freedom of others. It doesn't mean that freedom of speech doesn't exist, it means that the "balancing exercise" between certain Rights is performed differently. Edit: There is no state in the world where there exists some sort of "absolute freedom of speech".

Agreed ^. The classic example of screaming fire in a movie theater...

Re: France's AMF watchdog fines Bloomberg €5M over Vinci hoax

#38
post #15
post #8

Here's an article from 2016 that seems to contemporaneously describe the incident at hand: https://web.archive.org/web/20161123142234/https://www.bloom... > Vinci SA fell victim to a fake release claiming the French builder had fired its finance chief amid accounting irregularities, prompting the stock to plunge before the company denied the report. > Bloomberg News was among the few news organizations to report from…

> “We are a victim of a hoax,” Vinci was the victim of a hoax, Bloomberg was happy to report it without doing enough fact checking, they were spreading and part of the hoax.

If the Vinci website itself had been hacked, and the faux press release distributed from there, Bloomberg would obviously have a strong case. That doesn't seem to be the situation though, and so I'm curious to what channel this fake press release came through, e.g. a spoof email or Twitter account.

Re: France's AMF watchdog fines Bloomberg €5M over Vinci hoax

#39
post #6

Bloomberg literally compensates its writers for moving markets. So, the super micro case, this one and many others before these..no surprises here.

No, they literally don't. In the past reporters got bonuses for the number of market-moving stories they broke, but that was predicated on the stories being accurate. That bonus program is no longer extant.

Re: France's AMF watchdog fines Bloomberg €5M over Vinci hoax

#40
post #3

In today's world of race to the finish (/ bottom) journalism, I think it should be mandatory for all publications to have an addendum to each article, which contains: * list of sources of information and original research conducted ( including names of interviewees, only anonymized with a justification, links, etc ) * a sign-off by a journalist (note: not supposed to imply responsibility or liability for accuracy of…

This assumes the goal of news is to be accurate. It is not. News exists to sell advertising and media advertising is presented in (i.e. TV, Newspaper, Website subscriptions). Funny thing is the news industry gets it right a lot more than state-controlled news agencies. The incentive is there - selling more - to take some huge risks to find big stories and report on the powerful, rich and elites bad behavior.

If you inject personal liability to journalism, the news industry is dead in six months.

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