Nebraska farmers vote overwhelmingly for Right to Repair • Hacker News Board

Re: Nebraska farmers vote overwhelmingly for Right to Repair

#341

Post by raxxorrax » Tue, Dec 17, 2019, 9:22 AM UTC

cletus wrote: post #213

p1necone wrote: post #203

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is still garbage compared to Windows and Linux though. You can take basically any x86 computer from more than a decade ago and install modern Windows or your favourite linux distribution on it and it will work (albeit potentially quite slowly depending on the hardware). Are there any good reasons why Android and iOS are so much worse in this regard?

The battery is a big part of that (IMHO). Even laptops, which obviously have batteries, tend to get used on a charger a lot. Mine are almost always on a charger. Batteries degrade and on a device that is used 95%+ on battery power this is noticeable after 2-3 years such that there's no real point in making the hardware last longer than that. You can argue the battery should be replaceable but that adds to the size an…

To be fair, the integrated batteries can mostly be replaced. This is even easier than the proprietary casings manufacturers provided before, since you just need to match the correct voltage and a minimum current. You don't need a special casing that holds the battery.

Standardized detachable batteries would have been pretty nice of course.

But even if you buy a new battery from the manufacturer, it may already be 5 years old and degraded as well, since they would only be produced for a limited time frame. Today you just need to find one that is small enough to fit into your device and has the correct specifications.

So there are advantages and disadvantages for integrated batteries.

Re: Nebraska farmers vote overwhelmingly for Right to Repair

#342

Post by boring_twenties » Tue, Dec 17, 2019, 9:45 AM UTC

paulcole wrote: post #287

p1necone wrote: post #240

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think this is true, Apple has definitely been raising prices significantly in the last few years even on the cheapest models. Unless you're counting still being able to buy a generation or two behind for cheaper as "current generation" Edit: this article has a nice chart https://www.gsmarena.com/price_history_of_apples_iphones-new... There's a couple of blips with the 5c and the SE but for the most part even…

The iPhone 11 at release was $699, $50 more than the person paid for the 6s 4 years ago. They got the model with 16gb and a 4.7” screen. The 11 starts at 64gb with a 6.1” screen. Is this raising prices significantly?

Coincidentally, I almost broke down and bought my first ever iPhone simply because the 8 is the only phone with a reasonable screen size that can still be bought brand new.

Re: Nebraska farmers vote overwhelmingly for Right to Repair

#343

Post by tempestn » Tue, Dec 17, 2019, 9:53 AM UTC

pathseeker wrote: post #329

tempestn wrote: post #313

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Great, thank you. As an aside, I love listening to people with accents explain things, so the video was doubly enjoyable! Edit some time later: And then perhaps I'll go down an hours-long rabbit hole watching all his videos and learning a ton about machining...

>I love listening to people with accents explain things Are there people without accents that explain things? Because that would be a video I want to see.

Obviously I mean foreign accents when speaking English.

Re: Nebraska farmers vote overwhelmingly for Right to Repair

#344

Post by shrimpx » Tue, Dec 17, 2019, 9:59 AM UTC

wongarsu wrote: post #338

pathseeker wrote: post #329

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>I love listening to people with accents explain things Are there people without accents that explain things? Because that would be a video I want to see.

I suppose by "without accent" you mean "with General American accent"? German or French can be spoken without accent, but English doesn't have one universally agreed "standard accent". What's without accent to the American is just an American accent to everyone else.

I take the parent's comment to mean that everybody has an accent. There's no such thing as neutral or reference-frame speech.

Re: Nebraska farmers vote overwhelmingly for Right to Repair

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Post by ossworkerrights » Tue, Dec 17, 2019, 10:08 AM UTC

scarface74 wrote: post #163

ossworkerrights wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apple

Would you trust Joe Random to replace anything in the hardware authentication pipeline?

Would you trust a plumber entering your house? They might plant bugs. paranoia

Re: Nebraska farmers vote overwhelmingly for Right to Repair

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Post by crc32 » Tue, Dec 17, 2019, 10:11 AM UTC

Balanceinfinity wrote: post #120

An economist would say that when considering buying this machinery the farmer would also consider the cost and availability of repairs and that the competition in the machinery market (the primary market) would police the secondary market for repairs. In reality, this kind of policing is hard to come by because of the time and expense of figuring out which company has the cheapest lifecycle1 costs for the equipment (…

Great comment - the concept you speak of can be described as an "information asymmetry" or more broadly as "bounded rationality" as opposed to econ 101 theories which often assume "perfect information" or perfect rationality.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Information_asymmetry https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bounded_rationality

I think really only a rabid free-marketer (as opposed to all economists as you imply in the first sentence) would expect the market to self correct on something like this.

Re: Nebraska farmers vote overwhelmingly for Right to Repair

#347

Post by daemin » Tue, Dec 17, 2019, 10:11 AM UTC

closetohome wrote: post #230

cletus wrote: post #210

What many people may not realize is just how long-lived a lot of farm equipment is. There will be tractors out there still working that are 75 years old and just keep getting repaired. Obviously the manufacturers would like to sell those farmers tractors more often than that or, in the very least, generate a revenue stream from existing hardware and honestly that's what I see a lot of computing in vehicles as being:…

The search for an ongoing revenue stream is one of the most destructive forces in the tech industry. It leads to some very customer-hostile experiences.

I think software broke economics in a way, since that was one of the only products which you could produce once and sell infinitely. No other thing on the planet you could do that with. All other things you need to transform something physical or spend time doing which results in a linear mapping between input and output.

Digital goods (such as music, games, etc) do not count as independent things since they are implemented as software. Also previously things like music you had to perform or distribute physically.

Re: Nebraska farmers vote overwhelmingly for Right to Repair

#348

Post by daemin » Tue, Dec 17, 2019, 10:14 AM UTC

choward wrote: post #133

boredishBoi wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Actually MacBooks get 6/7 years from when Apple stops selling them. In contrast, the timer starts as soon as the first Chromebook with that cpu is released. It was a nasty surprise when I found that out

That is terrible. So they'll never create a device that is good enough that they'll sell for for 6 years unless they sell something they don't support.

I think the point was that the product was so minimal and cheap that you would throw it away and get a new one like a phone.

Re: Nebraska farmers vote overwhelmingly for Right to Repair

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Post by crc32 » Tue, Dec 17, 2019, 10:18 AM UTC

OldManAndTheCpp wrote: post #255

cletus wrote: post #252

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You make a thing. You sell your thing. You sell it for more than it cost to make it. That's your revenue stream. But that's not enough (apparently) hence locking down repairs and other anti-end user behaviour.

Now you've shipped your thing that lasts forever. If it's a mechanical object, maybe you can get continuing revenue from spare parts, but those will bring in less than the original purchase. Worst case, someone brings up a factory copying your part design (without doing any engineering work on them, just copies them exactly), and undercuts you. If you sell software, do you let the old stuff atrophy and become insecur…

> Now you've shipped your thing that lasts forever. If it's a mechanical object, maybe you can get continuing revenue from spare parts, but those will bring in less than the original purchase.

This might be bad for a tractor manufacturer; but an everlasting tractor would be great for society, right?

The incentive now is to innovate in order to create a better more efficient product. E.g.; a more fuel efficient tractor which increases productivity - then you'll get another sale.

Deliberately hobbling your product so that it needs repair or replacement disincentives innovation and is a form of rent-seeking https://www.investopedia.com/terms/r/rentseeking.asp and as such should be treated as a market failure. (I.e., legislated against)

Re: Nebraska farmers vote overwhelmingly for Right to Repair

#350

Post by touristtam » Tue, Dec 17, 2019, 10:19 AM UTC

cletus wrote: post #210

What many people may not realize is just how long-lived a lot of farm equipment is. There will be tractors out there still working that are 75 years old and just keep getting repaired. Obviously the manufacturers would like to sell those farmers tractors more often than that or, in the very least, generate a revenue stream from existing hardware and honestly that's what I see a lot of computing in vehicles as being:…

Regarding the reuse of previous harvest's seed, the lobbying of Monsanto and Co have also managed to make it illegal until recently.