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Jeff Dean interview: Machine learning trends in 2020

venturebeat.com

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Re: Jeff Dean interview: Machine learning trends in 2020

#51
post #5

Does anyone have tips on how a European based developer with machine learning expertise can get involved with projects battling climate change like Jeff is talking about here?

There are a variety of European climate agencies; depending on what country you live in / are interested in being in, there's:

- UK: Met Office https://www.metoffice.gov.uk/about-us/careers/vacancies)

- France: Institut Pierre Simon Laplace https://www.ipsl.fr/en/ (their job page is busted)

- Germany: Max Planck Institute https://www.mpimet.mpg.de/en/institute/opportunities/

- Netherlands: KNMI https://www.werkenvoornederland.nl/organisaties/ministerie-v...

I'm sure there are more, but these are the ones that I've worked with in the past. European climate research agencies seemed to have their act together a lot better than US ones; before I left the industry, they were much further on the path of moving computation to the commercial cloud (instead of trying to keep up in the supercomputer arms race, which always seemed like a losing proposition to me), and I think ML has been increasingly integrated into climate models as a way to approximate complex dynamical systems.

In terms of which of these labs had their head screwed on straight from a technical side, it was probably KNMI / Met Office, followed by Max Planck and then IPSL.

Re: Jeff Dean interview: Machine learning trends in 2020

#52

I don't like the idea of a computer that can think for itself, I don't like the idea of computers will replace humans jobs, I don't like the way we are heading.

Say hello to your rickshaw carrier for me, since you don't use cars, buses, or trains.

Re: Jeff Dean interview: Machine learning trends in 2020

#53
post #26

This the first nonsense talk by Jeff Dean. AI doesn't help at all it battling climate change, only politics do help. The models are accurate enough for centuries, AI would only help in hard forecasting in the usual 2 weeks window on local events. Long term on global scale there's no AI needed at all. So it looks like he ran out of topics to entertain himself. Or he went politician. Which would be a welcoming change.

I’d agree that Jeff there is a man with only a hammer walking around telling us that Climate Change is a nail. Engineers can’t fix everything. Of course the engineering is important, but politics is 1000% the road block on climate action and that is where efforts should be focused,

> that is where efforts should be focused

Are all humans fungible? You don't think it's valuable to have some errant geniuses trying to think of weird and creative ways to solve climate change through unconvential engineering? It's not as though they'd be good politicians.

Re: Jeff Dean interview: Machine learning trends in 2020

#54
post #26

This the first nonsense talk by Jeff Dean. AI doesn't help at all it battling climate change, only politics do help. The models are accurate enough for centuries, AI would only help in hard forecasting in the usual 2 weeks window on local events. Long term on global scale there's no AI needed at all. So it looks like he ran out of topics to entertain himself. Or he went politician. Which would be a welcoming change.

Did you go the talk or have the slide/video? It looks like you know the details and I'm interested in this but cannot find its details yet.

Re: Jeff Dean interview: Machine learning trends in 2020

#56
post #26

This the first nonsense talk by Jeff Dean. AI doesn't help at all it battling climate change, only politics do help. The models are accurate enough for centuries, AI would only help in hard forecasting in the usual 2 weeks window on local events. Long term on global scale there's no AI needed at all. So it looks like he ran out of topics to entertain himself. Or he went politician. Which would be a welcoming change.

I don't think AI has to be entirely useless in battling climate change. Dean has made other comments on AI and climate change:

https://venturebeat.com/2019/12/16/ai-experts-urge-machine-l...

"Dean said the company is thinking of including more information in Google search results to give users a predicted carbon output for choices they make, like ordering a certain product."

An AI system that predicts carbon output for consumer choices and delivers that to consumers could be useful in battling climate change, even if only in a small way.

Re: Jeff Dean interview: Machine learning trends in 2020

#57
post #4

Somebody tell Jeff about Jevon's Paradox, or actually don't bother.

Is Jevons paradox really a problem when your carbon footprint is zero? > VentureBeat: One of the things that’s come up a lot lately, you know, in the question of climate change — I was talking with Intel AI general manager Naveen Rao recently and he mentioned this idea [that] compute-per-watt should become a standard benchmark, for example, and some of the organizers here are talking about the notion of people being…

The Jevons Paradox describes not just individual responses to lower prices, but the overall market response. Which at its largest expanse is total global demand.

By way of analogy, the total industrialised world as of 1900 was mostly the US, UK, France, and Germany, with a few odd other millions from Canada, Australia, and bits of Europe.

Not only did those 200 million or so souls see a tremendous personal increase in services (and resources) consumed, but:

- The population of industrialised nations swelled by a factor of about 5, to 1 billion (the G7 + EU).

- Another two billions grew and increased economic activity in China and India.

- The Rest of the World grew to another 5 billions.

The G7 per capita GDP is about $40k. Depending on what figures you look at, China lands somewhere between about $8k - $14k/person. The rest of the world (including India) is lucky to hit an average of $5k, or about 1/8th the G7, whilst being 5 times its population.

Put another way, raising the RoTW to G7 standards would swallow 40x current global economic activity, and that's presuming the G7 + EU hold still, something few economic models allow for.

Or: Jevons has a lot of mileage yet.

Regards Google's "zero carbon" datacentres: if you don't account for the rest of the market's response, this simply lowers costs for other entrants to make claims which Google have effectively abandoned, absent some means of otherwise increasing prices. Fighting resource utilisation by increasing efficiency alone is like fighting for peace or fcking for virginity. It tends to self defeat.

To decrease overall* utilisation, you've got to increase costs or decrease demand. Taxes, sink utlisation charges (e.g., carbon cap-and-trade), or some form of suasion against resource utilisation, might work. Efficiency itself simply lowers costs, which is to say, increases the supply function, and moves total quantity consumed up.

Re: Jeff Dean interview: Machine learning trends in 2020

#58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’d agree that Jeff there is a man with only a hammer walking around telling us that Climate Change is a nail. Engineers can’t fix everything. Of course the engineering is important, but politics is 1000% the road block on climate action and that is where efforts should be focused,

> that is where efforts should be focused Are all humans fungible? You don't think it's valuable to have some errant geniuses trying to think of weird and creative ways to solve climate change through unconvential engineering? It's not as though they'd be good politicians.

Of course yes, that's valuable. But the political focus shouldn't be lost in the messaging. Google needs to take a political stand on Climate Change, first and foremost. The engineering investment is secondary. We already have the technology to solve our climate problems. We don't need the fancy AI solutions. We just need to implement what we have already right now.

That needs to be made abundantly clear to everybody.

If Google is asked "what are you doing to address Climate Change?" and we hear predominantly engineering talk, then they're being disingenuous.

Re: Jeff Dean interview: Machine learning trends in 2020

#59
post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Jeff is right. Training a machine learning model for any common task is getting radically cheaper and more energy efficient. This is a combination of both better hardware (eg, Google TPUs) and better optimisation of training techniques (which is mostly done outside Google). Eg, DAWN Bench[1] benchmarks training of ReseNet50 to 93% accuracy. This used to take days. Now the FastAI group has shown you can do it in 18 mi…

Can’t wait for Cerebras. They can probably do an ImageNet in a couple seconds.

I'll believe it when I see independent tests.

Re: Jeff Dean interview: Machine learning trends in 2020

#60
post #26

This the first nonsense talk by Jeff Dean. AI doesn't help at all it battling climate change, only politics do help. The models are accurate enough for centuries, AI would only help in hard forecasting in the usual 2 weeks window on local events. Long term on global scale there's no AI needed at all. So it looks like he ran out of topics to entertain himself. Or he went politician. Which would be a welcoming change.

I’d agree that Jeff there is a man with only a hammer walking around telling us that Climate Change is a nail. Engineers can’t fix everything. Of course the engineering is important, but politics is 1000% the road block on climate action and that is where efforts should be focused,

Perhaps the Singularity can figure out how to clean up the political mess we've made.
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