Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

California oceans rising in acidity at alarming rate, study finds

latimes.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

21–30 of 46 posts

Re: California oceans rising in acidity at alarming rate, study finds

#21

Post by Allower »

JohnJamesRambo wrote: post #19
mrfusion wrote: post #16

What’s the counter point to this?

How can there be a counterpoint to a scientific measurement? It either is or isn’t more acidic.

Has it been replicated? Who took the measurement? What are their potential conflicts of interest? What is the proof of validation for their tools and instruments? What assumptions did they make? What methods did they use? How sound was their reasoning?

Don't be a science dogmatist

Re: California oceans rising in acidity at alarming rate, study finds

#22

Post by tempestn »

Thorentis wrote: post #2

I wonder if instead of desalination plants, there exists "de-acidification" plants that can in turn use the acid for electricity generation or something like that? Whenever I see these articles, unfortunately my first thought is "we're too far gone, we can't turn around now" in terms of climate change. But! I think that instead of trying to reverse the situation (for instance, by convincing the largest carbon emitter…

This project looks pretty compelling as a cost-effective way to both remove C02 from the atmosphere and de-acidify the ocean: https://projectvesta.org/

Re: California oceans rising in acidity at alarming rate, study finds

#24

Post by comicjk »

JohnJamesRambo wrote: post #19
mrfusion wrote: post #16

What’s the counter point to this?

How can there be a counterpoint to a scientific measurement? It either is or isn’t more acidic.

There could be sampling issues, since you can't measure the whole ocean at once. The CO2 in the atmosphere is linked to the carbonic acid in the ocean, though, and both indicators point in the same direction.

Re: California oceans rising in acidity at alarming rate, study finds

#25

Post by booboolayla »

mrfusion wrote: post #16

What’s the counter point to this?

First would be that there's no such thing as "California oceans". Second would be that, just like with CO2, the fact that "it's rising!!$#!" does not mean much without a quantification of how much will that actually affect anything ("a sand beach rose by one billion grains of sand" would be an example of the trick used.) Third would be open access to data and methodology, which is most likely lacking.

Re: California oceans rising in acidity at alarming rate, study finds

#26

Post by comicjk »

Thorentis wrote: post #2

I wonder if instead of desalination plants, there exists "de-acidification" plants that can in turn use the acid for electricity generation or something like that? Whenever I see these articles, unfortunately my first thought is "we're too far gone, we can't turn around now" in terms of climate change. But! I think that instead of trying to reverse the situation (for instance, by convincing the largest carbon emitter…

You aren't taking into account the energy cost of separating substances from each other (understandable, since this isn't widely taught outside of chemical engineering). You can't get electricity by separating dilute carbonic acid from water, or CO2 from air. It's like trying to take the salt out of soup after you've oversalted it. Much better to stop before adding too much.

Re: California oceans rising in acidity at alarming rate, study finds

#27

Post by shard972 »

sevencolors wrote: post #23
mrfusion wrote: post #16

What’s the counter point to this?

Conspiracy fantasies

Yep, it's either the truth or conspiracy fantasies, no other positions...

This is why people don't take climate change as serious as they should

Re: California oceans rising in acidity at alarming rate, study finds

#28

Post by RickJWagner »

It's worth noting that the oceans are actually alkaline, not acidic.

But it makes for less alarming headlines to say "Oceans becoming less alkaline", doesn't it?

I really, really wish things were presented dispassionately and accurately. Things like this smack of propaganda.

Re: California oceans rising in acidity at alarming rate, study finds

#29

Post by lopmotr »

Thorentis wrote: post #2

I wonder if instead of desalination plants, there exists "de-acidification" plants that can in turn use the acid for electricity generation or something like that? Whenever I see these articles, unfortunately my first thought is "we're too far gone, we can't turn around now" in terms of climate change. But! I think that instead of trying to reverse the situation (for instance, by convincing the largest carbon emitter…

This kind of fantasy reminds me of people wanting giant escape slides and parachutes for the occupants of skyscrapers right after 9/11. Just because a journalist writes a shock-inducing story doesn't mean we need some extreme inventions to do anything about it. Like 9/11, it's not actually a big problem.

Re: California oceans rising in acidity at alarming rate, study finds

#30

Post by lopmotr »

bamboozled wrote: post #4
Thorentis wrote: post #2

I wonder if instead of desalination plants, there exists "de-acidification" plants that can in turn use the acid for electricity generation or something like that? Whenever I see these articles, unfortunately my first thought is "we're too far gone, we can't turn around now" in terms of climate change. But! I think that instead of trying to reverse the situation (for instance, by convincing the largest carbon emitter…

I think this is the right attitude really. What else is there ? It’s the same way I see politicians doing nothing helpful, people are just going to have to work around them to get the situation under control or at least make use of it.

No. Before investing money in solving a problem, you have to at least have some estimate of how severe the problem is, typically measured in dollars. We don't have that. Instead, we have people shouting "the end is neigh", which isn't actually a reason to take any action. I think the right approach is to do nothing about it until we have predictions. Then compare the cost of coping with the problem to the costs of preventions.
Post reply on HN