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Kansas City is first major city in U.S. to offer no-cost public transportation

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Re: Kansas City is first major city in U.S. to offer no-cost public transportation

#161

Post by gamblor956 »

buzzkillington wrote: post #113
drdeadringer wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Out of sight, out of mind" is real and not uncommon.

Not being assaulted is privilege now? I live down town. There's a homeless man on drugs who screams at the top of his lungs at random people every so often until the police come and pick him up. If you would rather he not be out of sight and out of mind please send me your address, I will buy him a one way ticket so he can camp out in your back yard.

Generally, most people who are "pro-homeless" or talk about treating them with respect don't actually live near or otherwise interact with the homeless on a regular or even occasional basis, which lets them feel superior and cast moral judgments on those of us who do live near the homeless and try to do something to contain the problem.

Re: Kansas City is first major city in U.S. to offer no-cost public transportation

#162

Post by monksy »

nostromo wrote: post #23

Seattle used to have this for an area of the city. It was called the "Free Ride Zone" - and it had some unexpected consequences. The primary problem is that homeless people would get on the bus because it's warm, and would fall asleep. The busses became rolling homeless shelters. This caused other people to take the bus less, because of public safety concerns, as well as simple quality-of-life issues like unpleasant…

> The primary problem is that homeless people would get on the bus because it's warm, and would fall asleep. The busses became rolling homeless shelters.

That's not really unexpected.

Re: Kansas City is first major city in U.S. to offer no-cost public transportation

#163

Post by g_langenderfer »

epicureanideal wrote: post #142
farss wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not just the free fare - it's the abysmal lack of shelter options and the attempts by cities to criminalize encampments and force people to find somewhere indoors to avoid arrest.

What is it that's preventing us from forcing our politicians to offer better options? I would vote for a solution to this, and even donate money to it, if enough other people were doing the same. Don't most people feel the same about this issue? What systemic problem is preventing a huge mass of people who agree on this from making a meaningful change happen?

If you believe funding housing solutions is the right thing, why won't you do it unilaterally?

Re: Kansas City is first major city in U.S. to offer no-cost public transportation

#164

Post by azylman »

wolco wrote: post #144
buzzkillington wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So fuck the middle class because the rich don't want to pay taxes?

The middle class makes up most of the tax payer population. You can't tax income at the top and expect much unless you added 20%.

Most of the tax payer population, but not most of the gains available for taxation. Small increases in taxes to the very wealthy would far outweigh large increases in taxes to the middle class in terms of government revenue.

On top of that, you say "unless you added 20%" as if that's something that's beyond the pale when in fact the wealthiest people pay far less in taxes that at any point in our country's history.

Re: Kansas City is first major city in U.S. to offer no-cost public transportation

#165

Post by ogre_codes »

I don't think cost is the biggest problem with public transportation. It's almost always much much slower than any other way to get around. This is doubly so if your current location and destination are on different routes/ lines.

Re: Kansas City is first major city in U.S. to offer no-cost public transportation

#166

Post by adrr »

DoreenMichele wrote: post #107
acchow wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Right. So of course we're supposed to solve homelessness. Know how this can be accomplished in Seattle?

Seattle needs a great deal more housing. https://streetlifesolutions.blogspot.com/2018/05/seattle-sta... The US needs to provide a national health care system. Our current system is actively part of the problem. Homeless services need to do a better job of providing "opportunity," not just charity. Most homeless services actively help keep the problem alive, a la The Shirky Principle. https://streetlifesolutions.blog…

Lot of the homeless services do offer job training. Goodwill is all about job training and Salvation Army also offers job experience for people recovering from addictions. Issue with homeless is a lot more complicated than access to jobs.

Re: Kansas City is first major city in U.S. to offer no-cost public transportation

#167

Post by gamblor956 »

nostromo wrote: post #65
CuriousSkeptic wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You don’t need to solve all of homelessness, just providing something competitive with a bus could be a start one would think.

Seattle has tried that. People with chemical addictions will not go to shelters because shelters don't allow you to be drunk or high. So shelter beds go unused, and people shoot up and drink in parks, on sidewalks, and on busses.

LA tried it too.

There are several thousand shelter beds that go empty each night in LA County, include nearly a thousand in Skid Row, because the shelters have sobriety requirements and most of the homeless would rather be high than housed, especially in the summer.

In the winter, it's usually easier to convince the homeless to knock off the contraband and use the shelters, especially after the first dozen or so weather-related exposure deaths.

Re: Kansas City is first major city in U.S. to offer no-cost public transportation

#168

Post by bilekas »

nostromo wrote: post #23

Seattle used to have this for an area of the city. It was called the "Free Ride Zone" - and it had some unexpected consequences. The primary problem is that homeless people would get on the bus because it's warm, and would fall asleep. The busses became rolling homeless shelters. This caused other people to take the bus less, because of public safety concerns, as well as simple quality-of-life issues like unpleasant…

Not to be rude, but don't you guys have security to just take them off ? It's a public disorder no ?

I do feel for the homeless, and of course its a refuge etc, but its a public service and so can be removed from the tram/service.

Its not a difficult solution to have to just grab a free ticket which could take you to the end of the line. In which case, no ticket (even free) no pass.

I have a high opinion of Seattle in my mind, not that I've been, but to not think of ways around the problem and just throw it in the bin.. I dare say, it might not have been just the homeless problem.

> not to collect fares from anyone that declines to pay

How is that possible by the way ? Get on without paying ? Why would any driver do that anyway ?

-- Edit 2 -> I am coming from a EU & ASIA experience only

Re: Kansas City is first major city in U.S. to offer no-cost public transportation

#169

Post by vonmoltke »

jcranmer wrote: post #61
ksec wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Arh, is this why why people in US hate public transport and prefer to drive themselves or go by taxi? For those of us living in the "outside" world where public transport are the norm, it is sometimes hard to understand why public transport is treated so differently in US.

A lot of the distaste for public transit in the US is ultimately motivated by a "fuck poor people" mentality, especially in regards to bus transit (rail systems tend to attract a somewhat wealthier clientele).

It is far from just poor people who make public transit unpleasant: https://twitter.com/hashtag/garbagepeopleofnjtransit

Re: Kansas City is first major city in U.S. to offer no-cost public transportation

#170

Post by cameldrv »

ksec wrote: post #58
nostromo wrote: post #23

Seattle used to have this for an area of the city. It was called the "Free Ride Zone" - and it had some unexpected consequences. The primary problem is that homeless people would get on the bus because it's warm, and would fall asleep. The busses became rolling homeless shelters. This caused other people to take the bus less, because of public safety concerns, as well as simple quality-of-life issues like unpleasant…

Arh, is this why why people in US hate public transport and prefer to drive themselves or go by taxi? For those of us living in the "outside" world where public transport are the norm, it is sometimes hard to understand why public transport is treated so differently in US.

The reasons are:

1. Public transit is very slow relative to cars. This is because the U.S. was mostly built after the invention of the car, which means road capacity is higher, parking is easier, and distances are farther. Even in places with decent public transit, it takes 2-3x as long to get somewhere on public transit as driving a car.

2. The U.S. is a rich country and more people can afford their own car or to take a taxi/rideshare.

3. Public transit is less comfortable and convenient. It involves walking and waiting outside, possibly in bad weather, and possibly crowding. If you are carrying things with you or bringing small children, the hassle is magnified trying to maneuver through small spaces with large items quickly.

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