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Kansas City is first major city in U.S. to offer no-cost public transportation

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Re: Kansas City is first major city in U.S. to offer no-cost public transportation

#141

Post by drdeadringer »

buzzkillington wrote: post #113
drdeadringer wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Out of sight, out of mind" is real and not uncommon.

Not being assaulted is privilege now? I live down town. There's a homeless man on drugs who screams at the top of his lungs at random people every so often until the police come and pick him up. If you would rather he not be out of sight and out of mind please send me your address, I will buy him a one way ticket so he can camp out in your back yard.

> Not being assaulted is privilege now?

That is not what I was talking about, albeit assault being a valid concern.

I too have been approached. There is "plenty to go around" without your kind offer, which I decline but not for the reasons I assume you hope for but for which I just stated ["there is no need"].

Re: Kansas City is first major city in U.S. to offer no-cost public transportation

#142

Post by epicureanideal »

farss wrote: post #67
nostromo wrote: post #23

Seattle used to have this for an area of the city. It was called the "Free Ride Zone" - and it had some unexpected consequences. The primary problem is that homeless people would get on the bus because it's warm, and would fall asleep. The busses became rolling homeless shelters. This caused other people to take the bus less, because of public safety concerns, as well as simple quality-of-life issues like unpleasant…

It's not just the free fare - it's the abysmal lack of shelter options and the attempts by cities to criminalize encampments and force people to find somewhere indoors to avoid arrest.

What is it that's preventing us from forcing our politicians to offer better options? I would vote for a solution to this, and even donate money to it, if enough other people were doing the same.

Don't most people feel the same about this issue? What systemic problem is preventing a huge mass of people who agree on this from making a meaningful change happen?

Re: Kansas City is first major city in U.S. to offer no-cost public transportation

#143

Post by jcranmer »

Dumblydorr wrote: post #66
jcranmer wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A lot of the distaste for public transit in the US is ultimately motivated by a "fuck poor people" mentality, especially in regards to bus transit (rail systems tend to attract a somewhat wealthier clientele).

I'm sorry, I have to push back here. Is it a "fuck poor people" mentality, as you state, to not want to be near people who smell of urine, excrement, BO, stale drug smells? This is simply the modern nose being accustomed to sanitary smells, can you really say it's a "fuck poor people mentality" if it's down to literally never smelling those smells except on public transport?

In my entire life, I have never experienced those smells on public transit in a wide variety of cities. So if you're experiencing those smells a lot, that is a local issue with an oversized burden on public transit because, well, fuck the poor people who take transit.

Re: Kansas City is first major city in U.S. to offer no-cost public transportation

#144

Post by wolco »

buzzkillington wrote: post #111
sutterbomb wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

These undesirable aspects are at least partially a result of the same fuck the poor mentality. In countries that actually care for their populations, homeless and otherwise, this problem is far less severe.

So fuck the middle class because the rich don't want to pay taxes?

The middle class makes up most of the tax payer population. You can't tax income at the top and expect much unless you added 20%.

Re: Kansas City is first major city in U.S. to offer no-cost public transportation

#145

Post by baddox »

jcranmer wrote: post #61
ksec wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Arh, is this why why people in US hate public transport and prefer to drive themselves or go by taxi? For those of us living in the "outside" world where public transport are the norm, it is sometimes hard to understand why public transport is treated so differently in US.

A lot of the distaste for public transit in the US is ultimately motivated by a "fuck poor people" mentality, especially in regards to bus transit (rail systems tend to attract a somewhat wealthier clientele).

I think it's more like "fuck sitting on the train for 40 minutes next to someone who is laying across a row of seats literally covered in their own waste." If you ever get onto a crowded BART and see a conspicuously unoccupied area, don't be tempted to venture near it.

It's certainly not a judgment of that person. It's just not how you want to spend your commute. Clearly that person is not healthy, and the entire situation is not healthy for anyone.

Re: Kansas City is first major city in U.S. to offer no-cost public transportation

#146

Post by pkaye »

ksec wrote: post #58
nostromo wrote: post #23

Seattle used to have this for an area of the city. It was called the "Free Ride Zone" - and it had some unexpected consequences. The primary problem is that homeless people would get on the bus because it's warm, and would fall asleep. The busses became rolling homeless shelters. This caused other people to take the bus less, because of public safety concerns, as well as simple quality-of-life issues like unpleasant…

Arh, is this why why people in US hate public transport and prefer to drive themselves or go by taxi? For those of us living in the "outside" world where public transport are the norm, it is sometimes hard to understand why public transport is treated so differently in US.

For me its infrequent and unpredictable bus timings, limited bus stops, long travel times. If I took buses to work it would take 1-1.5 hours to reach my work. When I drive, it takes 30-45min. And the bus is available only once an hour during peak hours.

Re: Kansas City is first major city in U.S. to offer no-cost public transportation

#147

Post by baddox »

drdeadringer wrote: post #108
tbrownaw wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not entirely clear on how avoiding unpleasant situations precludes also working to fix those same situations. (I'm also not clear on why this is an "inequality" problem rather than a "destitution" problem.)

"Out of sight, out of mind" is real and not uncommon.

But when people's health and safety are immediately threatened I find it difficult to argue that people who are able to shouldn't avoid the threats.

Re: Kansas City is first major city in U.S. to offer no-cost public transportation

#148

Post by baddox »

milkytron wrote: post #26
mrep wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Everyone kicks and screams about transit systems "paying for themselves" If you mean paying for themselves with fares, then no, as most public transportation does not cover the costs with just fares [0]. For example, I'm in Seattle currently and the fares only cover 20-40% of costs [1]. Not that I am complaining as I take the bus to work everyday, but it's not a slam dunk case of invest more because it has a positi…

I think what the original commenter meant was that people get upset because they don't want to subsidize transit systems, and would rather have them break even or turn a profit. What a lot of those same people don't understand, is that taxes pay for the road systems. The people that understand public transit realize that it's hard to recover the costs without assistance (taxes).

> What a lot of those same people don't understand, is that taxes pay for the road systems.

I don't think those people are failing to understand anything. They're just people who use the road systems and don't use public transit.

Re: Kansas City is first major city in U.S. to offer no-cost public transportation

#149

Post by gamblor956 »

selman89 wrote: post #91
Dumblydorr wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm sorry, I have to push back here. Is it a "fuck poor people" mentality, as you state, to not want to be near people who smell of urine, excrement, BO, stale drug smells? This is simply the modern nose being accustomed to sanitary smells, can you really say it's a "fuck poor people mentality" if it's down to literally never smelling those smells except on public transport?

The effect of this is “fuck poor people”. It’s political, not avoidable. Refusing to actively take account of such systemic matters has an outcome. Most people in the world seem to understand this, but not Americans. Americans only think of themselves.

I'm reminded of the slums currently surrounding Paris which are almost as bad as LA's skid row, but less visible simply because they're further from the people in power.

Or what about Britain's history of horrific poverty that formed the basis for nearly all of Dickens' work. Germany's far more recent history, especially for those on the East side of the wall. Russia's treatment of its poor during and after Communism. The way that people just ignore the poor, and even dying around them in China, and India, without even taking a few seconds to call emergency services.

Which country has contributed personnel to every major UN mission? Which is the only country to have provided medical assistance, food, and logistics support after every major terrorist act or natural disaster through January 2017? Which country sends more volunteers around the world to house the poor, feed the hungry, and teach the children than nearly every other nation combined? (Hint: the answer to all of these is the US.)

But sure, only Americans only think of themselves...

Re: Kansas City is first major city in U.S. to offer no-cost public transportation

#150

Post by nsporillo »

acchow wrote: post #42
noobermin wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is essentially treating the symptoms, not the cause.

Right. So of course we're supposed to solve homelessness. Know how this can be accomplished in Seattle?

Hopefully with some better allocation of resources. https://www.zerohedge.com/political/seattle-taxpayers-fund-t...
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