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Book Review: All Therapy Books

slatestarcodex.com

11–20 of 36 posts

Re: Book Review: All Therapy Books

#11

Hmmm... I'm pretty skeptical of the premise that "All therapy books start with a claim that their form of therapy will change everything." My wife practices Cognitive Behavioral Therapy (CBT), and the foundation of her approach and all CBT books on her bookshelf is that CBT in fact doesn't change anything at all. You will still have symptoms (depression, anxiety, etc.) after CBT, but the goal of CBT is to help you ma…

The author writes from the perspective of a working psychiatrist. In this linked essay, he refers to specific quotes regarding CBT that touted it as a nearly miraculous therapy, when it was first introduced.

https://slatestarcodex.com/2015/07/16/cbt-in-the-water-suppl...

Re: Book Review: All Therapy Books

#12

Hmmm... I'm pretty skeptical of the premise that "All therapy books start with a claim that their form of therapy will change everything." My wife practices Cognitive Behavioral Therapy (CBT), and the foundation of her approach and all CBT books on her bookshelf is that CBT in fact doesn't change anything at all. You will still have symptoms (depression, anxiety, etc.) after CBT, but the goal of CBT is to help you ma…

For what it's worth, CBT was hugely helpful for me. I read The Feeling Good Handbook (kind of the CBT bible, a new edition of Feeling Good). CBT is definitely a tool that you want on your tool belt if you're struggling with anxiety/depression. It may not be the be all end all, but I like that it puts control and responsibility into the person's hands, namely the thesis that thoughts precede emotion. It's helped me reframe my mind to give me more control over what I think and feel, to separate the true reality of life ("that person and I didn't talk for long", "I haven't heard from a friend in 24 hours", "I'm not currently doing anything on this saturday night") from the normative, subjective spins your mind can put on reality ("that person didn't like me", "I have no friends", "I'm a loser with nothing to do").

There's definitely a discussion about whether CBT should always be the therapy of choice. Personally, I think you need to be at the right spot for CBT to be effective. For me, I was a functional person who could somewhat identify what I didn't like about my mental state and was very open to trying to improve. I'm guessing CBT is probably not as effective if you're experiencing severe mental health problems or breaks in reality, or if you have milder symptoms but don't want help/change. Sometimes when I'm really down, CBT essentially feels like "you're sad because you're too stupid to be happy!" At the same time, I imagine every therapy works better if a person is at an okay spot and open to change. And CBT can probably help people all over the spectrum to various degrees.

If you're experiencing mental health problems, give The Feeling Good Handbook a try! It's a large workbook where you read and work through written exercises. Very helpful to me so I try to evangelize it when I can (and give out copies to people I know who struggle). I never tried in person therapy but that'd also be immensely helpful too. The great thing about CBT is how simple it is though, so reading a book (aka bibliotherapy) for a self-motivated patient can do the trick. Indeed, he spends the first chapter reviewing studies that claim bibliotherapy is just as successful as in person therapy. (Not sure what I think of that... I imagine book readers are more self-motivated than the average in-person patient but they were experimental studies so I'm sure that's already controlled for... nevertheless, bibliotherapy was good for me.

About me: I lost my dad in high school, my mom in college, and my sister to suicide after graduating. Pair that with an interesting childhood (alcoholic mom, bipolar sister) albeit a financially comfortable childhood. It was (and still can be) an incredibly hard stretch of time. At the same time, I was exceptionally gifted at school and really looked up to my teachers so I was and am very lucky and traditionally successful. If you're struggling, get help! Take responsibility! Your mind CAN change in small but subtle ways in how you frame your life and the daily happenings of it.

Re: Book Review: All Therapy Books

#13
Just for context, if you are new to the linked blog, Scott Alexander is writing from the perspective of a working psychiatrist, who tries to rationally evaluate the effectiveness of treatment methods for real-world reasons.

This essay about SSRIs was one of my first exposures to his writing, and I found it very interesting.

https://slatestarcodex.com/2014/07/07/ssris-much-more-than-y...

The linked essay is setting context for a series of reviews on various therapy books.

Re: Book Review: All Therapy Books

#14
Years ago I was recommended "The Antidote: Happiness for People Who Can't Stand Positive Thinking"

It's not a therapy book really; it's listed in the self-help genre. Still, I love it because it talks about all the problems with self-help books. The author goes to motivational talks, finds a person who grudgingly and unenthusiastically yell, "I'm so motivated" and later tells the author his trip to the talk was paid for by the parks department he worked for; he don't really want to be there.

The author does a deep dive into what's wrong with the motivation book culture in general, how we should not be afraid of our failures or how the quest to feel good all the time might be to our detriment. It's a great read.

The article here seems to be arguing more that all therapy books are either the same or claim their method is better when it's not significantly different, or they promise exergerant claims of totally turning ones life around when they really don't; how therapy is often a slow though out process with gradual changes.

It seems to fit inline with stuff in The Antidote from the perceptive of self-help books. It's a good read.

Re: Book Review: All Therapy Books

#16
post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For those interested in learning more about CBT, "Feeling Good, The New Mood Therapy" by David Burns is probably the most recommended book out there. https://www.amazon.com/Feeling-Good-New-Mood-Therapy/dp/0380... There is also a handy CBT app called Quirk that I'd also recommend checking out https://www.quirk.fyi/

Claim that their form of therapy will change everything: >The good news is that anxiety, guilt, pessimism, procrastination, low self-esteem, and other "black holes" of depression can be cured without drugs. In Feeling Good, eminent psychiatrist, David D. Burns, M.D., outlines the remarkable, scientifically proven techniques that will immediately lift your spirits and help you develop a positive outlook on life.

Ok, this is a premier example of Poe's Law

Re: Book Review: All Therapy Books

#17
There's a school of therapy/psychology that has a rigourous epistemological basis and gets repeatable results. (I.e. an algorithm for eliminating phobias that works quickly and reliably with durable change.) This school gets panned for not being scientific, and I have to admit that that's not undeserved, however, as I said, the underlying conceptual structure is solid and the results are repeatable. I myself was cured of a deep and lifelong depression in a single session of hypnosis by one of the co-founders of this school. So not only can I vouch for its conceptual integrity, I can also vouch for its dramatic efficacy. (This isn't "my cousin", or "some guy I heard about", it was me. I lived the anecdote.)

FWIW, some books. "Structure of Magic" I & II are the first two books and are a good place to start from to see the origins of the latter work. TRANCE-Formations is a rich text on theraputic hypnosis. And then there's the Core Transformation Process, an algorithm for profound spiritual growth.

https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/964154.The_Structure_of_...

https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/821993.The_Structure_of_...

https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/956297.Trance_Formations

https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/369813.Core_Transformati...

Re: Book Review: All Therapy Books

#18
post #7

Hmmm... I'm pretty skeptical of the premise that "All therapy books start with a claim that their form of therapy will change everything." My wife practices Cognitive Behavioral Therapy (CBT), and the foundation of her approach and all CBT books on her bookshelf is that CBT in fact doesn't change anything at all. You will still have symptoms (depression, anxiety, etc.) after CBT, but the goal of CBT is to help you ma…

For those interested in learning more about CBT, "Feeling Good, The New Mood Therapy" by David Burns is probably the most recommended book out there. https://www.amazon.com/Feeling-Good-New-Mood-Therapy/dp/0380... There is also a handy CBT app called Quirk that I'd also recommend checking out https://www.quirk.fyi/

[deleted]

Re: Book Review: All Therapy Books

#19
My own experience with CBT is that the diagnosis of the correct anxiety is the biggest weakness. Too often we listen to our thoughts in our minds too directly (e.g. "I'm not good enough") instead of understanding that the current anxiety has a function, and that is to protect us from what we are really scared about (it is useful for me to feel like I'm not good enough because it stops me from standing up for myself / risking a conflict with others). When I started to apply standard CBT techniques (face your fear) to the deeper anxiety, I found the surface anxieties vanished (i.e. practiced having and surviving conflicts got rid of "I'm not good enough" feelings).

Diagnosis of the deep anxiety is probably the biggest challenge. On a side note I found my dreams were very good at helping me find them by presenting situations which encouraged non anxious behaviour, which contrast to the anxious behaviour I would take in the dream - this disparity between what the situation demanded and how I behaved would highlight the deeper anxiety. I got very into the subject and wrote a paper on it: https://psyarxiv.com/k6trz, which was discussed in some depth on HN: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19143590

Re: Book Review: All Therapy Books

#20
Maybe placebo effect is falling – when people viewed it as an astounding miracle therapy, it got astounding miracle results, but now that it’s lost its luster nobody takes it seriously anymore.

I don't think "placebo effect" is an adequate term when the benefit from a therapy derives from the work patients put in. It's more like dieting than like a drug. Faith in the program helps people invest the required work and persevere through difficulties and setbacks. The impulse to give up, to take a break, to skip the work today, this impulse preys on doubt. In this dynamic, the differences in inherent effectiveness between one method and another can be dwarfed by the power of one treatment having superior marketing and inspiring people to work harder, persist through greater discomfort, and eventually have a greater likelihood of achieving results — which will of course be credited to the theoretical ideas underpinning the therapy instead of the marketing.

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