Live data from Hacker News

When Irish Eyes Are Crying

vanityfair.com

41–50 of 80 posts

Re: When Irish Eyes Are Crying

#41
post #9

One of the few positive things to have come out of the financial crisis of 2008 is that it has probably killed any prospect of Scotland becoming independent - we used to be promised that we could share in the same kinds of success as Ireland and Iceland if only we had the courage to go it alone! I doubt if many people have the appetite for being stuck in a small country with a financial monster like RBS or HBOS. [NB…

Why's that positive? It means we will never get rid of the moaning buggers!

Re: When Irish Eyes Are Crying

#42
post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're advocating unrest? The government has disbanded and elections have been called. They're in for a kicking, which although short of full-on political reform, is something several hundred people had to die for in Egypt. Would it satisfy you if we burned a few cars? Where do you live? I'll meet up with you later and we can tear your street to shreds if you like.

Not much of a comparison between Ireland and Egypt obviously. That's why the comparison to France is more appropriate: where the people were actually unwilling to take it lying down - as they are doing in Ireland. It doesn't matter that a general election has been called. With the poverty of leadership in Irish politics at the moment, Ireland is in for more of the same incompetence that led to the current disaster fr…

I wonder about that. I view our (lack of) reaction as mature, not passive. People died in Greece and they burned all kinds of things. They still have a huge debt to pay back. We're taking it like grown ups and having an election.

Re: When Irish Eyes Are Crying

#43
post #8

Anger is certainly an appropriate reaction in circumstances like this, but I find articles like this really gloss over the nature of the shared responsibility for what happened. Yes, banks and governments (including the US! - we just haven't felt the full brunt of it yet) engaged in many unsustainable and downright fraudulent practices. Asset bubbles are breeding grounds for such things. On the other hand, no one for…

>Neither banks nor consumers should get them

Most of these are high street banks (equivalent to S+L) that were making housing loans. You want to tell pensioners that their life savings are gone and the government is not going to do anything?

It might work - but it also means people will stop putting their money into banks, which means no credit cards, no business loans, no mortgages, no saving, no insurance. So everybody will only deal in cash which means no taxes.

Admittedly ireland is probably closer to a 12th century barter economy than the rest of europe - but I don't think it really wants to go there.

Re: When Irish Eyes Are Crying

#44

The bank bailouts made very little sense, the biggest toxic bank, Anglo Irish Bank, was not a retail bank. They specialised in property financing. Letting them go under would not have resulted in the Irish Government having to cover huge amounts of deposits. The current majority party (Fianna Fail) has a history of connections to property developers and this connection is what a lot of people though spurred the savin…

I'm in Berlin now and it appears the Germans feel these so called bailouts are rescuing countries that don't have their affairs in order. I think these bailouts are mostly to prop up German and French banks. Banks in Europe and the U.S. have finally figured a way to socialize their losses and privatize their gains. Big bonuses are still the norm at American banks even though it was their bad bets that led the U.S. to…

"Big bonuses are still the norm at American banks even though it was their bad bets that led the U.S. to its current economic mess."

I agree wholeheartedly, but there are _so_ many people who readily (and hastily) blame "dumb and poor" people who shouldn't have gotten mortgages, Fannie and Freddie (US loan guarantors) who backed those mortgages, and one rogue liberal US representative (Barney Frank) who somehow bullied the entire 500-member legislative branch and then President Bush into allowing more mortgages to be handed out to poor people, thus causing the worldwide financial crisis.

Seriously, that's what people actually believe. What can be done to convince them that it's way, WAY more complicated than that?

Re: When Irish Eyes Are Crying

#45
post #32

One fundamental problem we have in Ireland is the way in which we elect our Dáil (parliament). There's a 4 minute section in this video (43m45s onwards ) http://www.rte.ie/player/#v=1090239 which explains better than I can, but here goes: In short: 1. There are multiple seats (often with a few candidates running from the same party) per constituency. 2. It doesn't take many votes to get elected (Any more than 8,000 v…

There's a great book written by a civil servant in Ireland's foreign ministry in the 80s.

He said he had two maps on his wall, one of the eastern bloc enemy and a bigger one of his minister's constituency - a crisis (eg a pothole) in the constituency was the priority.

Re: When Irish Eyes Are Crying

#46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm in Berlin now and it appears the Germans feel these so called bailouts are rescuing countries that don't have their affairs in order. I think these bailouts are mostly to prop up German and French banks. Banks in Europe and the U.S. have finally figured a way to socialize their losses and privatize their gains. Big bonuses are still the norm at American banks even though it was their bad bets that led the U.S. to…

"Big bonuses are still the norm at American banks even though it was their bad bets that led the U.S. to its current economic mess." I agree wholeheartedly, but there are _so_ many people who readily (and hastily) blame "dumb and poor" people who shouldn't have gotten mortgages, Fannie and Freddie (US loan guarantors) who backed those mortgages, and one rogue liberal US representative (Barney Frank) who somehow bulli…

Yeah, it's hard to convince people that the CRA was not responsible for the real estate collapse. There were property bubbles in Spain, Ireland, Britain, etc. The CRA was responsible for those, obviously.

It's easy and natural for one to want to collapse a complicated issue into something manageable and understandable. Even if there is no evidence for it.

Re: When Irish Eyes Are Crying

#47
post #45
post #32

One fundamental problem we have in Ireland is the way in which we elect our Dáil (parliament). There's a 4 minute section in this video (43m45s onwards ) http://www.rte.ie/player/#v=1090239 which explains better than I can, but here goes: In short: 1. There are multiple seats (often with a few candidates running from the same party) per constituency. 2. It doesn't take many votes to get elected (Any more than 8,000 v…

There's a great book written by a civil servant in Ireland's foreign ministry in the 80s. He said he had two maps on his wall, one of the eastern bloc enemy and a bigger one of his minister's constituency - a crisis (eg a pothole) in the constituency was the priority.

Ha! That doesn't surprise me at all. What's the book called?

There is an appetite to reform this stuff now, but it's hard to imagine the winners of the game when played by those rules deciding to change it dramatically.

Re: When Irish Eyes Are Crying

#49
post #7

Pardon if I deviate a bit from the main topic. I live in Ireland, and it was quite disheartening when the last budget cuts appeared. Taxes were increased across the board. If you were earning 25,000 Euros a year, you would pay an extra 1000 Euros in tax (and surprisingly enough, this low earner class was the worst beaten income group by hike in tax in percentage terms - 4+% more tax!). Since its general consensus tha…

The UK spent the last 10years in a period of genuine economic growth - but still managed to increase it's national debt.

There is no limit to how much government's can spend, however they get the money!

Post reply on HN