Can any designers here give us a clue on how much it would've taken them to make a design of about that quality? Naturally if you work no spec it's going to be better... but approximately?
How we made a $25,000 website for $3,000
21–30 of 62 posts
Re: How we made a $25,000 website for $3,000
#22I have a big problem with this because it takes advantage of people who need the money, otherwise they wouldn't be participating in this kind of contest. It's one thing if you have ten participants and you pay the winner the equivalent of 10x the value of one site. But that's not happening here. If there are ten sites worth of work being done, only one site worth of pay is being spent. Let's make a comparison: Let's…
If they need the money, they should be looking for contract work or full-time work, not entering competitions. I'm for letting people try new methods of commerce and letting adults make their own decisions. Nobody was exploited here.
Re: How we made a $25,000 website for $3,000
#23I have a big problem with this because it takes advantage of people who need the money, otherwise they wouldn't be participating in this kind of contest. It's one thing if you have ten participants and you pay the winner the equivalent of 10x the value of one site. But that's not happening here. If there are ten sites worth of work being done, only one site worth of pay is being spent. Let's make a comparison: Let's…
Most of the complaints I hear about crowdsourced design services come from people who don't participate in them (just for the record, I don't either). It seems kind of presumptuous to say the designers are desperate and being taken advantage of. Maybe the long-term value is worth it for them (e.g., winning 10% of contests)? Maybe they find it a fun way to build experience?
It's easy to forget about revisions, it's not unusual for a simple project to go through 3 iterations and several meetings -- all of which sap up time.
In a healthy crowdsourcing process, failed bids aren't all that different from thrown out iterations and dead-end meetings (in the long term).
Re: How we made a $25,000 website for $3,000
#24Would anyone care to explain the prevalence of comments from designers complaining about "spec work"? I had never heard this term applied in a derogatory manner before. Is the idea that because you are an "artist" you are somehow exempt from the economics of competitive pricing?
Re: How we made a $25,000 website for $3,000
#25I have a big problem with this because it takes advantage of people who need the money, otherwise they wouldn't be participating in this kind of contest. It's one thing if you have ten participants and you pay the winner the equivalent of 10x the value of one site. But that's not happening here. If there are ten sites worth of work being done, only one site worth of pay is being spent. Let's make a comparison: Let's…
Most of the complaints I hear about crowdsourced design services come from people who don't participate in them (just for the record, I don't either). It seems kind of presumptuous to say the designers are desperate and being taken advantage of. Maybe the long-term value is worth it for them (e.g., winning 10% of contests)? Maybe they find it a fun way to build experience?
Crowd-sourcing is sometimes just cleverly marketed exploitation.
Re: How we made a $25,000 website for $3,000
#26Not sure where to even start on this one. Spec work sucks, it wastes designer's time and the end product often doesn't turn out great because they have an incentive to spend as little time as possible. But I have to say, this is even worse. Looking at point #4, they actively went out and tried to get as many designers as possible to do free work for them. From their post: "The response rate was staggering, with aroun…
Whose fault is it if a designer chooses to engage in a contest and they end up spending their time in a losing effort? We all have to compete but rather than disparage a business owner for being a good steward of their money could you instead present a valid argument for using a designer as opposed to a contest? Some good reasons why a designer, that might hypothetically cost 10x more than a contest, would be better…
A good designer would treat it as an actual design project rather than merely a "make it pretty" project. A good designer would step back and examine the actual business and functional problems and evaluate ways in which design could solve them. They'd work with the client to translate those problems and solutions into a visual and functional design.
Rather, in this project, it sounds like this Andrew.Tweed (the OP) attempted to solve all those problems himself, and then went shopping (shadily, I would say) for a photoshop monkey to solve his only issue, the "make pretty" part.
One of the other things you get working with a real designer is an actual relationship. When you need some collateral designed or work on a new project done, a designer that knows you and your business is invaluable. I wouldn't say it's impossible to find with some guy over the internet you paid $3000 to make your website, but I'd say it's less likely.
This may have been effective from a narrow viewpoint, but a real design process it was not.
Re: How we made a $25,000 website for $3,000
#27Would anyone care to explain the prevalence of comments from designers complaining about "spec work"? I had never heard this term applied in a derogatory manner before. Is the idea that because you are an "artist" you are somehow exempt from the economics of competitive pricing?
Re: How we made a $25,000 website for $3,000
#28Not sure where to even start on this one. Spec work sucks, it wastes designer's time and the end product often doesn't turn out great because they have an incentive to spend as little time as possible. But I have to say, this is even worse. Looking at point #4, they actively went out and tried to get as many designers as possible to do free work for them. From their post: "The response rate was staggering, with aroun…
Whose fault is it if a designer chooses to engage in a contest and they end up spending their time in a losing effort? We all have to compete but rather than disparage a business owner for being a good steward of their money could you instead present a valid argument for using a designer as opposed to a contest? Some good reasons why a designer, that might hypothetically cost 10x more than a contest, would be better…
Would you feel the same way if you thought you were hiring a designer and they sold you what amounts to a template that they've used for a hundred other clients? After all, the designer would merely be a good steward of his time by maximizing the value of work already done.
Selling the same work to multiple business owners is the flipside of spec'ing out to multiple designers. Think of it as a contest to see who the best businessperson is, by seeing who can derive the most business value from the same design.
Re: How we made a $25,000 website for $3,000
#29Earlier quoted context omitted.
Most of the complaints I hear about crowdsourced design services come from people who don't participate in them (just for the record, I don't either). It seems kind of presumptuous to say the designers are desperate and being taken advantage of. Maybe the long-term value is worth it for them (e.g., winning 10% of contests)? Maybe they find it a fun way to build experience?
It's easy to forget about revisions, it's not unusual for a simple project to go through 3 iterations and several meetings -- all of which sap up time. In a healthy crowdsourcing process, failed bids aren't all that different from thrown out iterations and dead-end meetings (in the long term).
They are different - because some companies are left with the task of only creating iterations (for which there's no payment)
Re: How we made a $25,000 website for $3,000
#30I think the problem with this whole notion is that you didn't get a $25,000 website. The results look like something that could have been bought off of themeforest.net for $50 and installed in under an hour. Nothing wrong with that at all but let's not go conflating things.
And just to be clear, there are many amazing freelancers or small agencies out there that deal in the sub $5k price range that would provide the same level of service discussed in the blog post. Hell, as a small investment firm it should be obvious that there's room for both big and small and everything in between in any industry.