How cloud computing impacts the environment • Hacker News Board

Re: How cloud computing impacts the environment

#31

Post by sideshowb » Mon, Dec 16, 2019, 1:01 PM UTC

yoz-y wrote: post #20

Ok but how about all the carbon removed by cloud computing? Less commutes necessary thanks to video conferencing tools and work from home, less cars on streets due do deliveries (disputable, depends on how the city is laid out I suppose)...

Possibly less energy consumption for the same cloud service thanks to shared hosting, on demand instances etc

Re: How cloud computing impacts the environment

#32

Post by hokkos » Mon, Dec 16, 2019, 1:21 PM UTC

Darkskiez wrote: post #7

Google at least claiming to buy 100% of their usage from renewable sources, they are pretty open that it doesn't mean that is what feeds their electrons at all times of the day though. Better than most traditional computing / on premises sources though. https://www.google.com/about/datacenters/renewable/

Relevant : https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2019/05/190523111408.h...

"100% renewables doesn't equal zero-carbon energy, and the difference is growing"

Re: How cloud computing impacts the environment

#33

Post by szczepano » Mon, Dec 16, 2019, 1:30 PM UTC

Well more and more computing power in one place won't be carbon neutral. I disagree with this article. It's like writing that 100 meter building can be more efficient than 100 buildings. Yes it takes less space horizontally but it's more complex to power it and support people then make 100 same buildings and provide each with wind / solar power. That's what decentralisation is about and maybe somewhere in future we start building self sustaining villages with own small networks that barely need to communicate with outside world instead of building giant networks that are inefficient. P2P FTW

Re: How cloud computing impacts the environment

#34

Post by hereme888 » Mon, Dec 16, 2019, 1:39 PM UTC

Data centers are more efficient than people managing that same amount in their own homes or office.

Also, "1%....might come from burning coal....if it did....it would result in 1.2 billion tonnes of CO2". "Might"? "If" it did? How is that unreal theory useful to anyone?

Re: How cloud computing impacts the environment

#35

Post by dangerface » Mon, Dec 16, 2019, 2:01 PM UTC

nicolaslem wrote: post #5

Disclaimer: former OVH employee > Although many cloud providers have pledged to decarbonize their data centers, none have ditched fossil fuels entirely Most datacenters in France are located close to nuclear power plants and only run on fossil fuels in case of a prolonged power outage. To me this is as carbon neutral as it gets.

Hetzner uses hydropower. All Iceland hosts use geothermal.

https://www.hetzner.com/unternehmen/umweltschutz/

Re: How cloud computing impacts the environment

#36

Post by himinlomax » Mon, Dec 16, 2019, 2:03 PM UTC

cookie_monsta wrote: post #21

nicolaslem wrote: post #5

Disclaimer: former OVH employee > Although many cloud providers have pledged to decarbonize their data centers, none have ditched fossil fuels entirely Most datacenters in France are located close to nuclear power plants and only run on fossil fuels in case of a prolonged power outage. To me this is as carbon neutral as it gets.

I don't mean to nitpick, but wouldn't "as carbon neutral as it gets" be zero reliance on fossil fuels, even for backup?

Trying to use a carbon neutral energy source for emergency power is very likely to have a higher carbon footprint overall due to the fixed cost of a rarely used infrastructure.

For example, on a much smaller scale, before leds were so incredibly cheap, incandescent bulbs were more energy efficient overall than alternatives such as fluorescent lights for places that were rarely visited. Think cellars, attics, service closets ...

Re: How cloud computing impacts the environment

#37

Post by rb808 » Mon, Dec 16, 2019, 2:03 PM UTC

Darkskiez wrote: post #7

Google at least claiming to buy 100% of their usage from renewable sources, they are pretty open that it doesn't mean that is what feeds their electrons at all times of the day though. Better than most traditional computing / on premises sources though. https://www.google.com/about/datacenters/renewable/

I buy 100% wind power at home, but its pretty much a scam I think. Of course when there isn't any wind I get coal/gas/nuclear generated power. The 99% of people who dont care dont care and its just a way to get some extra charge to some people who try to be green. I keep doing it to try to send some signal but might give up soon.

Re: How cloud computing impacts the environment

#38

Post by dangerface » Mon, Dec 16, 2019, 2:21 PM UTC

This is dumb, the environmental impact is the same as any other electrical appliance but we don't ask "What is the environmental impact of life support?" because it doesn't matter.

The problem and solution have been clear for over a decade we all know it, we need clean renewable electricity.

edit: I guess if you are releasing 12 articles a day they can't all be insightful.

Re: How cloud computing impacts the environment

#39

Post by netsharc » Mon, Dec 16, 2019, 2:22 PM UTC

rb808 wrote: post #37

Darkskiez wrote: post #7

Google at least claiming to buy 100% of their usage from renewable sources, they are pretty open that it doesn't mean that is what feeds their electrons at all times of the day though. Better than most traditional computing / on premises sources though. https://www.google.com/about/datacenters/renewable/

I buy 100% wind power at home, but its pretty much a scam I think. Of course when there isn't any wind I get coal/gas/nuclear generated power. The 99% of people who dont care dont care and its just a way to get some extra charge to some people who try to be green. I keep doing it to try to send some signal but might give up soon.

I've wonderd about buying "eco power", it's not like electrons have markings on them that say "I came from a generator attached to a wind turbine!". It's just that the wind turbines put some Megawatts into the pool and their buyers took the same amount of Megawatts.

Re: How cloud computing impacts the environment

#40

Post by Aeolun » Mon, Dec 16, 2019, 2:25 PM UTC

nicolaslem wrote: post #5

Disclaimer: former OVH employee > Although many cloud providers have pledged to decarbonize their data centers, none have ditched fossil fuels entirely Most datacenters in France are located close to nuclear power plants and only run on fossil fuels in case of a prolonged power outage. To me this is as carbon neutral as it gets.

Isn’t nuclear a fossil fuel as well? While not quite the same thing, I don’t think we can manufacture uranium (or whatever the reactor uses to run), more than once?