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If You Can't Buy the Keyboard You Want, Build It Instead

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Re: If You Can't Buy the Keyboard You Want, Build It Instead

#291

Post by BigJ1211 »

tomc1985 wrote: post #270
terranoct wrote: post #185

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not the bandwidth per se, so much it's the continuous attention cost spent on keeping that bandwidth going. Better tactile feedback and more reliable input means I don't have to constantly multitask half a task worth of attention onto making sure the input I think I'm doing went off as intended, which makes it easier to concentrate on the main task, which reduces the build up of fatigue, which reduces the rate a…

By my read y'all need more practice typing, not a fancy expensive ergo keyboard. Other than the occasional hand cramps this lifelong nerd doesn't have any of those problems on this old, mushy MS natural.

I thought so too untill I started having RSI/CTS issues. I've since switched to a 'fancy expensive ergo keyboard'. And it fantastic, I'm about as fast as I was on a traditional qwerty, but with less errors. However most importantly I have far less RSI/CTS complaints when typing on my redox than I do with a non-split (even ergo non-splits). My arms are in a far more natural position and so is my wrist thanks to the tenting and tilting I can do with the redox.

So if you are typing a lot, I would recommend getting an ergo before you start having issues.

For reference I could type about a paragraph in one go on a regular keyboard, now I can type an entire page before I start having pains/cramps.

Re: If You Can't Buy the Keyboard You Want, Build It Instead

#292

Post by ganonm »

clarry wrote: post #274
ganonm wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah I found it very painful at first (like learning Vim but perhaps 5x times worse). I highly recommend using typing.io to get used to it. Since the training examples are source code, it ensures you get exposed to special characters, which is crucial if you're using your ergodox for programming. As you can see from the table on my GitHub page, progress was slow and took several weeks to reach baseline levels. This w…

Curious, which language did you measure typing speed in?

Java and some Ruby just to make sure it wasn't over optimised for a single language.

Re: If You Can't Buy the Keyboard You Want, Build It Instead

#293

Post by adrianN »

jandrese wrote: post #245
aspaceman wrote: post #170

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's really common for computer programmers. In every big corp I've been in, there's usually one of 10 people who has an issue with it and uses some weird keyboard. I have pretty bad RSI and it comes from just being a computer user since I was 3 and developing bad habits along the way.

My impression is that it hits data entry clerks a lot harder than programmers. Programmers end up having to stop and take breaks frequently to think about what they're doing. A thought occurs: Are RSI issues worse with enterprise Java programmers and other people who end up having to write tons of boilerplate around all of their code?

Java has excellent code completion, so you don't end up typing most of the characters that end up in the source file.

Re: If You Can't Buy the Keyboard You Want, Build It Instead

#295

Post by jmiserez »

BiteCode_dev wrote: post #290
jval43 wrote: post #288

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Here's my solution to these issues: 1. I am "that guy", but who cares? It's like a carpenter bringing his own tools. I bought a second one after 1 year of lugging it around, because it's worth it to me. 2. Use/buy US QWERTY on everything, with US-International dead keys. I've been typing German (QWERTZ) this way for >10 years now, and it makes some programming tasks/tools easier to use. 3. Alternatively get a set of…

Those are not solutions, those are workarounds, incomplete ones, and for only half the things I mentioned. You may accept the price of those compromises depending of your context, what's important and the ROI or course. That's what our jobs are about after all. I don't mean to say you should not buy those keyboards, I only want to provide another point of view.

I totally agree, but it's not all black and white.

You can still have nice things N% of the time, and just fallback to the regular stuff when away from your desk.

Also the keyboard community isn't always rational or focused on ROI. It's both parts ergonomics (preventing health issues) and optimizing for productivity and nice working conditions (regardless of cost).

Re: If You Can't Buy the Keyboard You Want, Build It Instead

#296

Post by mgreenleaf »

brandonmenc wrote: post #94
ganonm wrote: post #49

Around 2 years ago now, I took the plunge and bought myself an Ergodox EZ split island keyboard. Quite franky, it is the biggest quantum leap in the ergonomic experience of interacting with a computer I have seen since learning Vim. It is comfortable, effortless and fast. If you spend any significant time interacting with computers it is a complete no brainer to invest in optimising the IO channel between your brain…

> it is a complete no brainer to invest in optimising the IO channel between your brain and the machine Why? You'll never even double the "throughput" of that "channel", let alone improve it by an order of magnitude. And I say this as someone who wasted lots of time and money attempting exactly that before I realized that typing is not what I spend most of my time doing while programming.

I bought a Razer Blackwidow and it makes the experience of typing, whenever I type, a much more pleasant experience. The first time I used it, it almost felt like cutting through butter compared to any keyboard I'd used before. And it will last for tens of millions of keystrokes. I may not type much, but those times where I do, it is beautiful.

Re: If You Can't Buy the Keyboard You Want, Build It Instead

#297

Post by C1sc0cat »

tomc1985 wrote: post #270
terranoct wrote: post #185

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not the bandwidth per se, so much it's the continuous attention cost spent on keeping that bandwidth going. Better tactile feedback and more reliable input means I don't have to constantly multitask half a task worth of attention onto making sure the input I think I'm doing went off as intended, which makes it easier to concentrate on the main task, which reduces the build up of fatigue, which reduces the rate a…

By my read y'all need more practice typing, not a fancy expensive ergo keyboard. Other than the occasional hand cramps this lifelong nerd doesn't have any of those problems on this old, mushy MS natural.

Which in its self is a better keyboard that 95% of computers are shipped with.

I tested using by high end gaming mechanical keyboard at work and my error rate went down a lot

Re: If You Can't Buy the Keyboard You Want, Build It Instead

#298

Post by im3w1l »

martopix wrote: post #294
im3w1l wrote: post #271

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you have objective data?

Do you?

I never get the more expensive product unless it's obviously or provably better. Baseline assumption is that quality is the same and they just want more money.

Re: If You Can't Buy the Keyboard You Want, Build It Instead

#299

Post by C1sc0cat »

tracker1 wrote: post #120
Osiris wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For me the hesitation is that it's a lot of money for something I don't know if I'm going to like it or if it's going to make me more productive. It's an expensive experiment, especially considering the vast variety of different styles, layouts, pressure sensitivity, etc, etc.

It's one of those situations where a store front or a friend with the item you're considering helps a lot. My favorite keyboard ever was a Model-M buckling spring keyboard... one year I broke a retainer clip for the spacebar while taking the key caps off to clean it... I decided to toss it, it was probably close to a decade old at that point. After that for about another decade, I bought a new keyboard each year, oft…

I have a Type M that I really must get a usb adaptor sorted out for.

The Type M is the original IBM PC keyboard even better than the type F AT keyboards.

Re: If You Can't Buy the Keyboard You Want, Build It Instead

#300

Post by eugen_a »

eyeball wrote: post #217
cyphar wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'll be honest, I bought an Ergodox EZ a year or so ago and have consistently struggled to get comfortable using it. I have set up quite a few useful macros for programs I use daily like tmux as well as making it more vim-friendly (after many interations) and yet I still find it a serious chore to get past the fact that the keys feel un-naturally placed. Eventually I just give up and switch back to my laptop keyboard…

Thumb keys are too akward to reach for my hand size. I like the ultimate hacking keyboard better.

Haven't tried the Ergodox, but had bad experiences with thumb keys on both a Kinesis Advantage and a Keyboardio.

Then I tried the ultimate hacking keyboard and I absolutely love it, especially the mouse emulation layer. And it took me way less to get used to it compared to the above two. I can't recommend it enough!

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