Learning at work is work, and we must make space for it • Hacker News Board

Re: Learning at work is work, and we must make space for it

#461

Post by organsnyder » Fri, Dec 13, 2019, 12:59 PM UTC

greenshackle2 wrote: post #453

sailfast wrote: post #436

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As someone that has also worked for large enterprises as well as government, I’d say that using agile can be another way to micromanage, but it can also be used in a way that improves product quality and impact while helping developers. Generally, I’ve found that the level to which agile approaches make life better depends on how much management is actually willing to let the team do its work and stay empowered. This…

By top cover, do you mean managers shielding lower level employees? That was my experience at a mid-size finance firm, it was only possible for my team do to decent work because my team lead was fairly competent at keeping the higher-ups up at bay.

The best managers I've worked for have understood that one of their key roles is to be shit-umbrellas.

Re: Learning at work is work, and we must make space for it

#462

Post by octokatt » Fri, Dec 13, 2019, 4:29 PM UTC

michaelcampbell wrote: post #58

rafaelvasco wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes it is. Another big red flag is micro managing. Managers that want to control even the amount of coffee you drink or how many times you go to the bathroom, if you go out too much etc. Super annoying;

That happens?

I've seen it most in call centers, where the call balancing is so sensitive they try to stagger bathroom breaks through a forty hour call floor.

Then, that policy, which is a boring dystopia in and of itself, gets applied to other individual contributors "to make things fair". I've seen this in more than one customer-service focused company (though thankfully avoided being in the category).

Re: Learning at work is work, and we must make space for it

#463

Post by espeed » Fri, Dec 13, 2019, 5:14 PM UTC

Working and learning at the highest level: What's the difference?

Re: Learning at work is work, and we must make space for it

#464

Post by leshow » Mon, Dec 16, 2019, 3:51 AM UTC

SketchySeaBeast wrote: post #203

leshow wrote: post #165

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a very pessimistic world view. I found in the engineering faculty that the subjects we were taught were very broad. However, I continued to learn on my own in my free time after I got my degree. I've been doing this consistently for the last 8 years or so. I now have completely new skills and much more depth on knowledge on CS topics than I had coming out of university.

I'm a bit confused what you're arguing against in my point - you continue to super specialize in your off time. If you wanted to switch vocations from something in the CS domain, how much of what you now know and have self-taught would apply? At my university engineers were offered two elective courses in the faculty of arts or sciences. That's not a particularly broad education.

A B Eng covers so much "basic" knowledge that you never really have time to specialize at anything. Doing physics and math courses is hardly becoming specialized in SE. It takes a long time and years of work afterwards to become specialized at something.

The good news is, you can do it without going back to school. IMO an SE will get little benefit out of going back for another degree. You'll get much more ROI spending your time contributing to OSS projects and making a name for yourself.

Re: Learning at work is work, and we must make space for it

#465

Post by leshow » Mon, Dec 16, 2019, 3:55 AM UTC

adamsea wrote: post #180

leshow wrote: post #165

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a very pessimistic world view. I found in the engineering faculty that the subjects we were taught were very broad. However, I continued to learn on my own in my free time after I got my degree. I've been doing this consistently for the last 8 years or so. I now have completely new skills and much more depth on knowledge on CS topics than I had coming out of university.

The point is that while for you it is your choice and pleasure to spend your free time doing something with a direct career benefit, for others, there are often other valid and important uses of their free time and so there is a cost to that. The question is if that cost an individual occurs if they choose not to spend their free time on career-related skills is ethical or good for society.

It's not realistic to expect to go to school for 4 or 5 years and then work for the next 30 without learning anything new. Or rather, not if you care about advancing and making more money. Maybe I'm lucky that I actually enjoy it, so it doesn't feel so much like work to me.

Re: Learning at work is work, and we must make space for it

#466

Post by thomassantosh » Mon, Dec 16, 2019, 4:47 AM UTC

Kind of disappointed with this article. I thought it would have more practical advice vs. just defining categories of learning (i.e. incremental, transformational) and talking about the need for learning. On this topic, a great read is Scott Young's "Ultralearning" https://www.scotthyoung.com/blog/ultralearning/. Well-researched, practical and the author has been successful following his own advice. Highly recommend.

Re: Learning at work is work, and we must make space for it

#467

Post by yowlingcat » Tue, Dec 17, 2019, 3:26 PM UTC

runninganyways wrote: post #79

1-6 wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Great question, this is what I was wondering as well.

Well I dropped the golden handcuffs. So right now I'm flipping cars (replace a clutch, head gasket, etc.) driving for Lyft, and I might get a part-time job. I'm definitely not making as much money as I used to. But for me the traditional strategy of working for a company and saving up for retirement wasn't working anyhow. it was like well I'm either going to have to deal with this now when I can do something about it…

That sounds really cool. Have you thought about potentially going down the path of becoming a dealer? The auto space continues to be hot as it's highly lucrative (see Vroom for example), and you've found a niche that seems to work on a unit economics basis. Why not strap on some automation bit by bit and make your flipping process more efficient? By the time you get even 25% of the way through, you'll probably have stumbled on to a multimillion if not multibillion dollar company.