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When Irish Eyes Are Crying

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Re: When Irish Eyes Are Crying

#21

Post by yummyfajitas »

VB6_Forever wrote: post #3

Banking seems a lot like a gambling except that it's heads you win and tails they lose. Lend big into a property bubble and you'll be rewarded with colossal bonuses. The bubble bursts, loans go bad and the share price collapses. However the main banks banks are considered too big to fail and the taxpayer has to bail them out. Bonuses (smaller ones) for exceptional performance continue to be the norm, rolling heads th…

Why don't the shareholders get rid of their employees,...

Financial institutions fired 800,000 people nationwide between Jan 1 2008 and Jan 1 2011. That's about 10% of their total workforce.

http://research.stlouisfed.org/fred2/series/USFIRE?cid=11

Re: When Irish Eyes Are Crying

#22

Post by rst »

dpapathanasiou wrote: post #14

It's interesting to compare Greece and Ireland. Greece was profligate, openly cooking the books since at least 2002 ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greek_Financial_Audit,_2004 ) whereas Ireland was doing the noble thing by imposing austere measures on itself. Yet both needed bailouts by the EU recently, and both will probably wind up defaulting.

Also Ireland vs. Iceland. Both got massively screwed over not by the government, but by mismanaged banks. Ireland's stuck its own taxpayers with the debts of its profligate banks, and done the "austerity" thing to pay for it. Iceland let the banks go broke, and let the banks' overseas debtors take the hit. And even though the Icelandic banks screwed up worse than anybody's, Iceland's doing as well as Ireland in total output (better than the Baltics), and a lot better in unemployment, which is kinda relevant if you're an Icelander.

Everyone's favorite economic lightning rod posts graphs here: http://krugman.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/02/01/comparative-peri...

Re: When Irish Eyes Are Crying

#23

Post by [deleted] »

abrenzel wrote: post #8

Anger is certainly an appropriate reaction in circumstances like this, but I find articles like this really gloss over the nature of the shared responsibility for what happened. Yes, banks and governments (including the US! - we just haven't felt the full brunt of it yet) engaged in many unsustainable and downright fraudulent practices. Asset bubbles are breeding grounds for such things. On the other hand, no one for…

[deleted]

Re: When Irish Eyes Are Crying

#24

Post by watchandwait »

dpapathanasiou wrote: post #14

It's interesting to compare Greece and Ireland. Greece was profligate, openly cooking the books since at least 2002 ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greek_Financial_Audit,_2004 ) whereas Ireland was doing the noble thing by imposing austere measures on itself. Yet both needed bailouts by the EU recently, and both will probably wind up defaulting.

Ireland and Greece are COMPLETELY different. Greece's government budget is wildly fraudulent. Ireland's government was responsible, but decided to encumber taxpayers with private banking losses. Irish voters, like those in Iceland, may yet reject this deal.

I know I would. The international banking cabal has captured the "democratic" processes across most of the West and is using those governments to plunder their people.

Re: When Irish Eyes Are Crying

#25

Post by pjriot »

greenmachine wrote: post #5

As someone currently living in Ireland, I found the subtitle of this article particularly appropriate: "Where's the rage?". The Irish government bankrupted the country many times over by putting the debts of the banks on the backs of the people. But, unlike France, for example, where people have taken to the streets and brought the country to a halt to be heard, in Ireland there is nothing like the level of activism…

You're advocating unrest? The government has disbanded and elections have been called. They're in for a kicking, which although short of full-on political reform, is something several hundred people had to die for in Egypt.

Would it satisfy you if we burned a few cars? Where do you live? I'll meet up with you later and we can tear your street to shreds if you like.

Re: When Irish Eyes Are Crying

#26

Post by duke_sam »

The bank bailouts made very little sense, the biggest toxic bank, Anglo Irish Bank, was not a retail bank. They specialised in property financing. Letting them go under would not have resulted in the Irish Government having to cover huge amounts of deposits. The current majority party (Fianna Fail) has a history of connections to property developers and this connection is what a lot of people though spurred the saving of Anglo. Now more information is bubbling up about the exposure of European banks to Anglo and the other Irish banks. Europe (especially Germany) wants this mess cleaned up because if the Irish Government drops the guarantee then their own banks will have a huge hole in their finances. These were essentially risky investments made by foreign banks that the Irish taxpayer is now being forced to pay back.

Bank of Ireland and Allied Irish Bank were profitable (extremely so in the context of the Irish economy) and if kept in government hands would eventually make back their losses. Anglo made it's profits on the back of the property bubble, not something that will be repeated any time soon.

This is the perspective of an Irish economist on the debacle: http://www.ronanlyons.com/2011/01/18/the-irish-bank-sandwich...

Re: When Irish Eyes Are Crying

#27

Post by ebiester »

abrenzel wrote: post #8

Anger is certainly an appropriate reaction in circumstances like this, but I find articles like this really gloss over the nature of the shared responsibility for what happened. Yes, banks and governments (including the US! - we just haven't felt the full brunt of it yet) engaged in many unsustainable and downright fraudulent practices. Asset bubbles are breeding grounds for such things. On the other hand, no one for…

On the other hand... for the equivalent square feet in Tucson, my rent went up 50% over a decade for the same square footage. When you see your rent go up so drastically, while everyone is getting low interest rate mortgages, you start to question your "fiscal responsibility." If I had bought in 2006, I couldn't have sold my property today. However, we didn't know where the "new normal" would even out.

People took on these home loans, in most cases, because of the fear of rent increasing past their ability to pay. If you buy, you may not be able to afford it now, but eventually inflation will bring the numbers into line, especially not knowing where the "new normal" would be.

Re: When Irish Eyes Are Crying

#28

Post by greenmachine »

pjriot wrote: post #25
greenmachine wrote: post #5

As someone currently living in Ireland, I found the subtitle of this article particularly appropriate: "Where's the rage?". The Irish government bankrupted the country many times over by putting the debts of the banks on the backs of the people. But, unlike France, for example, where people have taken to the streets and brought the country to a halt to be heard, in Ireland there is nothing like the level of activism…

You're advocating unrest? The government has disbanded and elections have been called. They're in for a kicking, which although short of full-on political reform, is something several hundred people had to die for in Egypt. Would it satisfy you if we burned a few cars? Where do you live? I'll meet up with you later and we can tear your street to shreds if you like.

Not much of a comparison between Ireland and Egypt obviously. That's why the comparison to France is more appropriate: where the people were actually unwilling to take it lying down - as they are doing in Ireland. It doesn't matter that a general election has been called. With the poverty of leadership in Irish politics at the moment, Ireland is in for more of the same incompetence that led to the current disaster from whatever regime takes over. With activist unrest earlier on, it might have been possible to make it clear that the decision to bailout the banks was unacceptable and needed to be reversed. So, yes, sometimes you have to burn a few cars if you want to be heard. Instead the passivity of the Irish people has doomed the economy for generations.

Re: When Irish Eyes Are Crying

#29

Post by hessenwolf »

abrenzel wrote: post #8

Anger is certainly an appropriate reaction in circumstances like this, but I find articles like this really gloss over the nature of the shared responsibility for what happened. Yes, banks and governments (including the US! - we just haven't felt the full brunt of it yet) engaged in many unsustainable and downright fraudulent practices. Asset bubbles are breeding grounds for such things. On the other hand, no one for…

The total domestic residential mortgage book kicks in around 750,000 contracts for a total of 100bn EUR in the Republic. 3% of that is according to a Goldman Sachs report a pessimistic default rate. 3bn EUR sounds to us like pocket change these days.

The responsibility is not shared as evenly across Ireland as is commonly thought.

Re: When Irish Eyes Are Crying

#30

Post by [deleted] »

bhavin wrote: post #7

Pardon if I deviate a bit from the main topic. I live in Ireland, and it was quite disheartening when the last budget cuts appeared. Taxes were increased across the board. If you were earning 25,000 Euros a year, you would pay an extra 1000 Euros in tax (and surprisingly enough, this low earner class was the worst beaten income group by hike in tax in percentage terms - 4+% more tax!). Since its general consensus tha…

[deleted]
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