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Moving to Germany as an Australian (2016)

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Re: Moving to Germany as an Australian (2016)

#201

Post by fit2rule »

ericmay wrote: post #195
fit2rule wrote: post #193

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Australia's Mauthausen: Rottnest Island. A place of vomiting teenagers and little else. Austrias Mauthausen: a real memorial to the victims, out in the open. (Occasional vomiting teenager notwithstanding.) Australians hide their crimes against humanity in places nobody reasonable will ever visit, because they don't want to know about Australias crimes against humanity . The Austrian people maintain Mauthausen, becaus…

Ah yes, the Australian Genocide. Classic. Very comparable to other genocides, like the Uighur Muslim genocide, the genocide of the Jews, or the Armenian genocide. It's very clear to me you just want to grandstand. And in doing so you're creating even more problems. If you want to criticize Australian treatment of refugees, go for it. Don't call these detention centers concentration camps though, because that's not wh…

A couple of million people lost their lives, and a civilisation that had been around for tens of thousands of years was wiped out in a hundred.

Australia got away with its genocide while the worlds attention was elsewhere. Don't even try to defend this.

Re: Moving to Germany as an Australian (2016)

#202

Post by ericmay »

fit2rule wrote: post #201
ericmay wrote: post #195

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ah yes, the Australian Genocide. Classic. Very comparable to other genocides, like the Uighur Muslim genocide, the genocide of the Jews, or the Armenian genocide. It's very clear to me you just want to grandstand. And in doing so you're creating even more problems. If you want to criticize Australian treatment of refugees, go for it. Don't call these detention centers concentration camps though, because that's not wh…

A couple of million people lost their lives, and a civilisation that had been around for tens of thousands of years was wiped out in a hundred. Australia got away with its genocide while the worlds attention was elsewhere. Don't even try to defend this.

If you want to talk about Australia's treatment of Aboriginals, then that's fine. But that's not what we started discussing. So don't try and say that I'm defending something we haven't even discussed. If there is something I've missed, please tell me, but my understanding is we're talking about the original articles and Australian detention centers for intercepted unauthorized migrants.

To re-center the discussion I think it's bad in just about every conceivable way to refer to the facilities we first discussed as concentration camps. While they could potentially fit a technical definition of "concentration camp", they are a far, far cry from what we mean when we say concentration camps.

In colloquial use, concentration camp refers to what the Nazis did to Jews and others in the 1940s, and now also refers to the current genocide that is occurring against Muslims in China (which I also find disturbing that Muslim majority countries are largely silent on the issue). It does not refer to a country intercepting potential unauthorized migrants and then giving them food, water, shelter, safety, and giving them the opportunity to apply for asylum in the intercepting country or in others. To equate these two, totally different things (for lack of a better word) is irresponsible and unhelpful. If these were concentration camps, the Australians would just sink the boats and kill them before rounding them up, wouldn't provide food and medicine, or allow people to apply for asylum - they would just force them into forced labor, or murder them (like the Chinese and Nazis).

This self-hatred that people in Western countries have is bewildering, and I don't understand why people lie to themselves. Maybe people have a pathological need to be outraged? Maybe we're bored?

-edit-

I'd also like to add, while the treatment of Aboriginals is certainly regretful (to understate the hell out of it) - let's not try and put the Australians in a unique category. There is not a single country or people that doesn't have blood on its hands. Ideally in the West, we now know better, but that doesn't make us perfect, and that doesn't mean we don't also criticize and condemn other countries or peoples for their mistreatment of others. Throughout most of history, most of the time there was no afterthought once you wiped out a people.

-edit2-

Since I can't reply to your last comment - why did you change the subject?

Re: Moving to Germany as an Australian (2016)

#203

Post by fit2rule »

ericmay wrote: post #202
fit2rule wrote: post #201

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A couple of million people lost their lives, and a civilisation that had been around for tens of thousands of years was wiped out in a hundred. Australia got away with its genocide while the worlds attention was elsewhere. Don't even try to defend this.

If you want to talk about Australia's treatment of Aboriginals, then that's fine. But that's not what we started discussing. So don't try and say that I'm defending something we haven't even discussed. If there is something I've missed, please tell me, but my understanding is we're talking about the original articles and Australian detention centers for intercepted unauthorized migrants. To re-center the discussion I…

Just because someone did something, worse than you have done it, doesn't mean you get away with doing it also.

If your family was First Nation, probably you'd not have as hard a time seeing the similarity that some make in comparing Australia's genocide with those that occurred elsewhere in the world. In fact, systematic eradication of what was considered a 'lesser people' did happen in Australia's past - it was an official government policy for far too long, and in many places in Australia, is still happening. Children are still being taken from their families, never to return.

Its not just the offshore concentration camps.

Your idea that crimes against humanity are only done by those who manifest their violence in an overt manner, is precisely the issue with Australia today. It is getting away with its crimes against humanity, precisely because peoples expectations, as you demonstrate, require a much more violent, overt act before they will respond.

Australia is getting away with it. It has systematised oppression at scale, behind the scenes, with industrial efficiency.

In the meantime, the ADF's support of Saudi Arabia's forces in the campaign in Yemen, against innocent people, remains unreported and out of our focus.

Re: Moving to Germany as an Australian (2016)

#204

Post by the_why_of_y »

interdrift wrote: post #127
fefe23 wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Germany does not have extraterritorial prison colonies. I think this is a combination of hyperbole and choosing the wrong word. Germany does have housing for refugees and asylum seekers while they wait for asylum to be granted or denied, and the conditions there might be construed as prison-like depending on your political point of view. Technically it's not a prison. Asylum seekers are not permitted to do paid work,…

Illegal migration is wrong and is rightfully opposed by many countries. There are procedures everyone must follow. Nobody is above the law, especially not if you're entering a country.

If you are persecuted by a state of which you are a citizen and are refused a passport, or have your passport cancelled, typically your one and only option to travel to another country to apply for asylum status is to do so illegally.

Re: Moving to Germany as an Australian (2016)

#205

Post by jammygit »

bitL wrote: post #80
RileyJames wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We have low standards. The Victorian “high speed rail project” cost $750M to increase our regional (long distance enough) trains to a whopping 165 km/h. Here’s the kicker, when it gets hot, they have to slow down. And when I say hot, I mean, 36C (96F). And by slow down I mean 90km/h. Welcome to Australia, that’s half a month per year. And it’s getting hotter. [bom]( http://www.bom.gov.au/jsp/ncc/cdio/cvg/av?p_stn_num…

You have the same problem as Russia. Only a tiny part of the country/continent is populated, the population is spread along coasts, and even that not continuously. Building advanced trains is not economical, they won't service sufficient population per km traveled.

The bad trains in Russia are strategic: it’s so that European conquerors can’t use the rails when the Russians get pushed back, but the Russians are used to it so they manage to function just fine

(wwii logistics joke...)

Re: Moving to Germany as an Australian (2016)

#206

Post by netsharc »

ben_w wrote: post #165
usr1106 wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Actually it's quite easy to get a residence/work permit in the EU EU has nothing to do with your residence/work permit. That is a national process and the rules differ (If you have a residence permit in EU you free to travel, but not to work in the whole EU.) We just discussed the issue at work (Finland) the other day. We get a lot of applicants from outside of EU and not many local ones. The official duration to h…

The EU blue card scheme doesn’t fully replace local immigration rules (and AFIK isn’t even fully deployed yet), it’s just an easy route for high-paid roles. I’m expecting to apply for one post-Brexit, and the only reason I don’t already have one is that EU citizens aren’t allowed to apply.

Wouldn't there be a flood of Brits after Brexit, making your job search harder? I'd say leave now (huh, no pun intended), but I guess EU companies are at the moment reluctant to take British citizens as employees.

Alternatively if you have a bit of Irish or Italian in your heritage, you can get a passport from one of them.

Re: Moving to Germany as an Australian (2016)

#207

Post by marcus_holmes »

dgellow wrote: post #170
marcus_holmes wrote: post #124

I moved from Perth to Berlin. The biggest thing that hit me was the alcohol. I can buy a (good!) beer at anytime (even 3am) for about 2 euros from a spati ("late shop"- like a deli but mostly selling beer), and then walk around in the open air drinking it. All the supermarkets sell alcohol all day(and so cheap). People gather by the canals in summer, just drinking and talking. No-one seems to get drunk, there's no vi…

> No-one seems to get drunk, there's no violence or shouting That’s ... not my experience. I felt really safe in Berlin, even outside during the night in the middle of the city, but people definitely get drunk in bars and in public, really a lot by my standards. And with that you have the unavoidable shouting, random acts of violence, property damage. I enjoy Berlin but the place really has an alcohol issue IMHO.

I've never seen a random act of violence, or even shouting yet (except for the obviously mentally disturbed characters in the U-Bahn station).

In Perth, it's not at all uncommon for Northbridge on a Friday night to see half a dozen people passed out, another dozen vomiting, a few fistfights, and a thousand drunken shouting matches.

Honestly, it's a different level.

Re: Moving to Germany as an Australian (2016)

#208

Post by WhiteAussie »

lucb1e wrote: post #135
WhiteAussie wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe reconsider the no kids thing. Then you'll have the best reasons in the world for a larger car!

Mess up the planet two ways (introducing more humans + a car), great idea :-) Of course, environmental reasons aren't my only reasons to not have kids but it is a nice way to stop doubting about it since I'm sure it's the right choice for the planet and everyone on it, even when I'm only leaning towards no personally.

Do you think the women in Niger averaging over 7 children each give a damn about the environment?

Maybe the best thing you could do for the cause is to create and raise a family of bright, conscientious children who share your passion for conservationism.

Re: Moving to Germany as an Australian (2016)

#209

Post by overkalix »

djrobstep wrote: post #118
bitL wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You have the same problem as Russia. Only a tiny part of the country/continent is populated, the population is spread along coasts, and even that not continuously. Building advanced trains is not economical, they won't service sufficient population per km traveled.

People often say this, but I'm skeptical the raw distances are the problem at all. I think it's simply a lack of vision. Melbourne-Sydney is not much longer than Barcelona-Madrid, Which is served by a very successful high speed train route.

Very successful? AVE routes, including the BCN-MAD one, are not financially sustainable. Spanish and European taxpayer money devoted to the comfort of businessmen and bureaucrats and the profits of contractors while metropolitan lines fall apart and receive little to no investment.

Re: Moving to Germany as an Australian (2016)

#210

Post by ben_w »

netsharc wrote: post #206
ben_w wrote: post #165

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The EU blue card scheme doesn’t fully replace local immigration rules (and AFIK isn’t even fully deployed yet), it’s just an easy route for high-paid roles. I’m expecting to apply for one post-Brexit, and the only reason I don’t already have one is that EU citizens aren’t allowed to apply.

Wouldn't there be a flood of Brits after Brexit, making your job search harder? I'd say leave now (huh, no pun intended), but I guess EU companies are at the moment reluctant to take British citizens as employees. Alternatively if you have a bit of Irish or Italian in your heritage, you can get a passport from one of them.

I’ve already got the job. I moved to Germany about 16 months ago. I’m just not allowed to apply for a blue card until after I stop being an EU citizen. Everything will probably work out for me, partly because I have been making a few levels of backup plans beyond what I expect to need, even before the referendum.
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