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The Cathedral and the Bizarre

marktarver.com

111–120 of 130 posts

Re: The Cathedral and the Bizarre

#111
post #5

Some true points mixed in with a load of bullshit.

Yep, he's just torpedoing his own credibility with shit-nuggets like :

> What the world does not need is another buggy open source copy of Windows Media Player.

Is this supposed to refer to VLC ?!? (Admittedly that one is not in in the current version of his "manifesto".)

- Somehow using GitHub as an example that Darwinian competition doesn't work.

- Retconning the term "abandonware"

- The tired (and wrong) argument equating counterfeiting to theft. (No wonder that he thinks that mindshare is unrelated to making money !)

> Instead [F(L)OSS] produced a graveyard of dead software; the largest sink of wasted human labour in history - bigger than even the Mao's Great Leap Forward or the Stalin's building of the White Sea Canal.

And after all of this, he has the gall to call F(L)OSS proponent "Zealots" !

"Why do you look at the speck of sawdust in your brother's eye and pay no attention to the plank in your own eye?"

Re: The Cathedral and the Bizarre

#112
Cathedral & Bizarre has never made sense to me.

What do people think of Social Architecture, Pieter Hintjens' ideas for building successful open source software?

Collective Code Construction Contract https://rfc.zeromq.org/spec:42/C4/

https://legacy.gitbook.com/book/hintjens/social-architecture...

http://hintjens.com/books

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pieter_Hintjens

--

Hintjens' worldview appeals to me.

I've done a bit of activism, with (very) modest success. A Design Patterns book club I started 20 years ago continues today; we somehow stumbled on a sustainable format.

Not having any successful OSS projects of my own (yet), I can't say if Hintjens' ideas work. I hope to find out.

Re: The Cathedral and the Bizarre

#113

Writing software within old-school enterprises is a daunting task involving lots of proprietary systems that create a lock-in of sorts. Complex build and test systems, complex deployment and production systems are the norm. Weird tools and libraries with their own proprietary names and conventions increase the learning curve for any new-joinee. Some even have very proprietary non-standard language, runtime etc. makin…

Unfortunately that only leads to another kind of lock-in. The culture assumes everyone is using the same tools, so you are not allowed to use any kind of non mainstream software. And any smaller project using non mainstream libraries gets killed.

For example I use Mercurial rather than Git. Mercurial had better Windows support, a better command line syntax and with TortoiseHg a better Linux GUI. However, it happens all the time that linux distributions include wrong versions of Mercurial and TortoiseHg. You can use an old version of Mercurial and an old version of TortoiseHg, or a new version of Mercurial and an new version of TortoiseHg, but the distributions package a new version of Mercurial and an old version of TortoiseHg, and then TortoiseHg does not start. So they ship a completely broken package and no one cares because it is not a standard tool. (and last time I tried to install TortoiseHg from source separately, it also did not run, because was not compatible to the Python version installed by the distribution)

Recently I wanted to use a tool written in OCaml. It is really well written, has a GUI, using gnomecanvas. And it does not start anymore. Debian/Ubuntu has decided, gnomecanvas from gnome2 is deprecated and will no longer be installed. But the new gnome does not seem to have OCaml bindings. I am not aware of anyone working on a update to fix that. OCaml is too small to be allowed to make GUIs.

I write my software in FreePascal. After a system update, my projects do not start anymore on Android. Turns out binutils has enabled relro by default and FreePascal does not work with relro enabled. Imagine GCC could not create Android apps in the default settings. That would be fixed quickly, but with FreePascal no one cares

Re: The Cathedral and the Bizarre

#114
post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think a lot of people have reaped the benefits of open source software. And corporations are formed of people. It is a check and balance on proprietary software, in quality, cost, privacy and independence. It has benefitted developers directly, in education, in transferrence of skills to other employers, and in direct customization of software for their personal needs.

> And corporations are formed of people. So was the Nazi party. The problem is with the distribution of benefits. Much like the vaulted Lebensraum the question is who gets the land and who gets to be fertilizer for the land. So far the answer to the first is Bezos, and to the second is everyone who isn't Bezos. A distribution that leaves something to be desired of.

Utter nonsense. There are many people getting great benefit from Amazon other than bezos. Including many of people employed there and the many investors that have reaped benefit from the stock increase.

Re: The Cathedral and the Bizarre

#115
This guy is so wrong. Truth is that innumerable closed source programs are abandoned (and that's actually what "abandonware" stands for). However, contrary to open-source, they're nowhere to be seen.

When you're depending upon some piece of closed source abandonware, you're without recourse. If by any chance, you'd be depending upon an abandoned open-source software, most probably it has been abandoned because there are better alternatives; or in case there aren't, you're still free to salvage it from oblivion.

The whole article reeks of bad faith.

Re: The Cathedral and the Bizarre

#116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

See also: Atlanta Nights , another sort of "successful failure" group-written project meant to demonstrate that an alleged "publisher" was really a vanity press with no actual standards or editorial process. You can now buy the book via various links from the official website of the "author" [1], but in case you're in need of a few giggles right this minute , the submitted manuscript was also released by one of the c…

Is that…all? It says 71,503 words at the top but I only see a hundred…

It's readable (y'know, technically) for me in Firefox 71. Maybe there's something weird about the PDF?

Re: The Cathedral and the Bizarre

#117
post #32
post #2

>...an article puts the abandonment rate of open source projects on Github at about 98% - meaning that there is no activity on 98% of projects after a year [0]. This has coined a phrase - abandonware. I'm not a programmer, I'm a researcher. Let me tell you a fact: about 100% of research articles are not updated. Somehow the link [0] cited in the article makes an indirect similar point, but what's wrong with programs…

I'm not a researcher, I'm a programmer. The same abandonment happens within healthy corporations with proprietary source code.

There are even times when the source code is abandoned but the object code is in active use :-)

Re: The Cathedral and the Bizarre

#118
> Most open source is barely usable and empirical inspection of Github will show that to be true.

There is no barrier to entry on GitHub or similar repositories.

It's quite another thing to contribute to the Linux kernel, or gnu, or similar, which are overwhelmingly excellent, and an essential part of running the world as it's currently configured.

Re: The Cathedral and the Bizarre

#119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Meh. Bourbaki is merely indicative... Someone who believes that only individuals can produce theorems hasn't really worked in mathematics. It's a no true Scotsman argument.

I guess Terry Tao would be a good example of collaborative mathematics? He was mentioned in another thread and I noticed the following while reading his wiki page: > Within the field of mathematics, Tao is known for his collaboration with Ben J. Green of Oxford University; together they proved the Green–Tao theorem. Known for his collaborative mindset, by 2006, Tao had worked with over 30 others in his discoveries,[1…

Indeed! Erdos is another great example. 1200+ collaborative papers.

Re: The Cathedral and the Bizarre

#120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Generally, a business pays developers to write software that it expects to be put to immediate use, which means that most of the time it functions, at least minimally. I'm sure exceptions exist, of course. FLOSS abandonware has no such constraint.

My first six months of employment at my current job consisted of going from one project to another that the C-levels listed as "a top priority for the company"--like, called all-hands meetings and told everyone about this great thing and how important the people working on it were--and then decided to cancel. Two years later, that still happens from time to time. So, from my point of view, it looks much more like bus…

Sounds like you work at a startup that was very young when you first joined.

If this is the case, did any of those projects contribute to you guys still being around now, two years later?

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