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WoW streamer hires YouTubers who leeched off his stream to run official channel

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Re: WoW streamer hires YouTubers who leeched off his stream to run official channel

#51

Post by Mirioron »

eru wrote: post #25
andreareina wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The general rule for derivative works is that you own the changes, but you still need the original copyright holder's permission to distribute the changed version. Thus the reuploader owns the sequence of play(stream, start, end) instructions that make up the edited version, but the streamer still owns the stream itself. So the publishers own the game, the streamer owns the performance, and the reuploader owns the ed…

And in most cases these days the games company gives (at least implicit) approval.

It makes sense to do so, because games and streams do not compete with one another as much. Edits of someone's stream probably competes more with the stream itself.

Re: WoW streamer hires YouTubers who leeched off his stream to run official channel

#52

Post by Mirioron »

friendlybus wrote: post #38
skrebbel wrote: post #12

Note: I don't know anything about games or livestreaming. This is a genuine question about something that confuses me. Can someone explain why livestreamers can claim their stream as their own original content, but reuploaders can't? I mean, someone who livestreams a game is primarily showing off the artwork and level design and everything put in by the game company. There's like 90% derived content plus 10% original…

Jim Sterling's small disagreement with an asset flipping nobody game dev over displaying videos of games described the argument for youtuber uploads of gameplay. He said that the argument in court would be that the review or livestreamer playing the game is creating a transformative piece of work by playing it. There are an infinite number of different videos that could come from playing a game so any individual one…

The difference with Jim Sterling is that he is (was?) pretty explicitly reviewing those games. In the case of a livestreamer it's harder to argue that it is a review. Reviews are something we want protected, because they inform consumers. This makes them good for society. Livestreams tend to have a less direct path to "definitely good for society".

Re: WoW streamer hires YouTubers who leeched off his stream to run official channel

#53

Post by Mirioron »

jcranmer wrote: post #49
LeftHandPath wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m still amazed by the sheer amount of money there is in this. $30,000 a month for reuploaders? $100,000 in a day for ad deals? Makes me wonder if I chose the wrong career.

That is definitely on the high end of remuneration. The median I expect is about $2K a month.

It would surprise me if it's even that high. From the "successful" ones perhaps, but there are so many people who do this only for a few bucks because they don't find success.

Re: WoW streamer hires YouTubers who leeched off his stream to run official channel

#54

Post by Angostura »

skrebbel wrote: post #12

Note: I don't know anything about games or livestreaming. This is a genuine question about something that confuses me. Can someone explain why livestreamers can claim their stream as their own original content, but reuploaders can't? I mean, someone who livestreams a game is primarily showing off the artwork and level design and everything put in by the game company. There's like 90% derived content plus 10% original…

I watch a League of Legends streamer www.twitch.tv/bizzleberry

I don't watch him for the artwork - I watch it primarily to learn how to play better, and because he's an amusing, chilled chap who talks to his 'chat' as he plays.

Re: WoW streamer hires YouTubers who leeched off his stream to run official channel

#55

Post by gpm »

andreareina wrote: post #14
skrebbel wrote: post #12

Note: I don't know anything about games or livestreaming. This is a genuine question about something that confuses me. Can someone explain why livestreamers can claim their stream as their own original content, but reuploaders can't? I mean, someone who livestreams a game is primarily showing off the artwork and level design and everything put in by the game company. There's like 90% derived content plus 10% original…

The general rule for derivative works is that you own the changes, but you still need the original copyright holder's permission to distribute the changed version. Thus the reuploader owns the sequence of play(stream, start, end) instructions that make up the edited version, but the streamer still owns the stream itself. So the publishers own the game, the streamer owns the performance, and the reuploader owns the ed…

> In theory each requires permission from the previous

Up to fair use. There's a good argument that streaming a game is fair use. It's highly transformative, not a market substitute, contains criticism/critique/commentary on the original, and contains only a fraction of the game. That's hitting all four of the factors considered to at least some extent [0].

Reuploading someones stream exactly, no way in hell is that fair use. It's not substantially transformative, it is a market substitute, it is for profit (as is the original stream) and it doesn't contain any added commentary or criticism, it might be only a fraction of the stream, but that's one factor out of four at best.

[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fair_use#U.S._fair_use_factors

IANAL

Re: WoW streamer hires YouTubers who leeched off his stream to run official channel

#56

Post by gdxhyrd »

yNeolh wrote: post #34
fuu_dev wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are hundreds of examples for popular streamers that tried to change games but needed to go back to keep their viewer base what makes the statement that its 90% the streamer not sustainable. This does not make your statement wrong, but there are several other dependencies that do not allow this to be generalized.

No, what happens there is that some streamers are more linked to a specific game because maybe they are better or funnier, but that's it. If you go to Twitch and scroll down in Fornite you will see hundreds of people with less than 100 viewers which also confirms that the game means almost nothing. Minecraft is linked to the growth of many Youtubers because its the most open game you can find and thus giving creators…

> If you go to Twitch and scroll down in Fornite you will see hundreds of people with less than 100 viewers which also confirms that the game means almost nothing.

Not at all. There are so many small Fortnite streamers because they want to become big like the popular ones and they know it is extremely hard to grow a stream out of the top 10-20 most watched games.

You can easily prove this: pick any popular but-not-so-much game and you will find way, way less streamers. To the point some have only 5-10 people streaming it, while having many tens of thousands of concurrent players. And yet only a total 100-1000 viewers combined are watching at a given time.

Re: WoW streamer hires YouTubers who leeched off his stream to run official channel

#57

Post by make3 »

skrebbel wrote: post #12

Note: I don't know anything about games or livestreaming. This is a genuine question about something that confuses me. Can someone explain why livestreamers can claim their stream as their own original content, but reuploaders can't? I mean, someone who livestreams a game is primarily showing off the artwork and level design and everything put in by the game company. There's like 90% derived content plus 10% original…

That's like saying the NBA shouldn't own the rights to its tournaments because it didn't invent basketball. Who does the activity is important.

Also game companies want to have streamers because it's huge free advertising

Re: WoW streamer hires YouTubers who leeched off his stream to run official channel

#58

Post by jcranmer »

Mirioron wrote: post #53
jcranmer wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is definitely on the high end of remuneration. The median I expect is about $2K a month.

It would surprise me if it's even that high. From the "successful" ones perhaps, but there are so many people who do this only for a few bucks because they don't find success.

You're right, I am discounting the staggering fraction of people who are making essentially no money. The median number of viewers on a Twitch stream may well be 0, but it's surprisingly hard to find hard numbers here.

Re: WoW streamer hires YouTubers who leeched off his stream to run official channel

#59

Post by dkns »

LeftHandPath wrote: post #47
Qahlel wrote: post #2

Technically, that's how I had found about Asmongold in the first place. The real money -for streamers- is in Twitch. What he's doing, is logical and smart for his bottom-line.

I’m still amazed by the sheer amount of money there is in this. $30,000 a month for reuploaders? $100,000 in a day for ad deals? Makes me wonder if I chose the wrong career.

But this is for top 1% streamers. Average streamer makes nothing close to what average programmer makes and it's much, much easier to be average programmer. Plus 1% programmers are probably better compensated than 1% streamers.
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