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Having Kids

paulgraham.com

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Re: Having Kids

#671

Post by RobertRoberts »

littlethrowaway wrote: post #668

We have a 15 month old. She is probably the easiest kid imaginable, sleeps really well, eats really well, great temperament. It's still ridiculously hard work. My partner still isn't recovered from the birthing process (some latent muscle imbalances came out). She wants another one, I'm happy to stick with one healthy one. So incredibly hard to know what to do when _most_ stories you hear are about how it's better to…

My oldest just graduated from college. Just like childhood, if feels long while you are in it, when it's over it feels like it went fast.

But, now I have a young adult that is permanently attached to me in a close and wonderful way for the rest of my life. I wouldn't trade any extra hours of netflix or going out to eat for having my own people.

Have as many kids as you are willing/able to have. I had 5. First one is a shock. Second one means one kid per parent. Third is now a full family, but the oldest is so thrilled about a sibling now and there is play and joy in the house. 4th and 5th don't really add any extra work (mentally) other than you have a few extra years dealing with kids. And you need a minivan. (which I love anyway for many reasons) The older the kids get the more they take care of themselves, and eventually add more to the family than they need.

Now, when my two oldest visit, we have a defacto party and we have so much fun hanging out and playing, talking, laughing, cooking together, making plans...

I get this for the rest of my life now.

Best investment I have ever made.

Edit: We know a family that both parents were single kids (they said their childhoods were lonely) so they had 7 kids and then adopted 7 more (all siblings from a messed up home). They love it, their house is like a dorm. I couldn't do this, so I think its so much about your life experience.

Re: Having Kids

#672

Post by [deleted] »

gist wrote: post #344
triangleman wrote: post #131

Hey guys. Anyone else have the experience of having kids, getting a burst of energy, but of course all that energy goes directly back into the kids and house, and you have absolutely no life for 3-5 years or more? Because my kids are 2 and 4 and so far it's been 4 years of no life, no freelance clients, almost no learning/hobbies, just 35-40 hours a week of working as much as I can at the office and then everything i…

Older guy with advice here. Spend as much time as you can preparing financially for the future. Your kids when they get older will care more about what you have done and what you can do for them and forget the fact that you missed spending time with them for honestly what are trivial events (while that may be true in some cases it's also I feel a myth created by writers and Hollywood and certain 'whiners' where it ma…

[deleted]

Re: Having Kids

#673

Post by unfocused »

triangleman wrote: post #131

Hey guys. Anyone else have the experience of having kids, getting a burst of energy, but of course all that energy goes directly back into the kids and house, and you have absolutely no life for 3-5 years or more? Because my kids are 2 and 4 and so far it's been 4 years of no life, no freelance clients, almost no learning/hobbies, just 35-40 hours a week of working as much as I can at the office and then everything i…

-Do go on vacations with your kids. You are investing in having them travel with you in the future, and liking it. You can do it! Just give them tasks and treat them with respect.

-Ignore the kids menu. It's shit. Just order off the regular menu and share with your kids.

-Some kids are hard to raise, some are easy. You will probably have both if you many more than 1. C'est la vie.

-If you're like me and value time, get a job you can walk to. Have your kids go to a school you can walk them to. It makes things so much easier.

-Hire a cleaner every few weeks if you need a break.

-Buy used clothing if you can. Same with toys. No need to break the bank.

-Give them space, teach them to be bored on their own.

-Have scheduled electronics free time. Kids careers != Parents careers. They may end up doing things completely unrelated to your career. Let them find it.

-They will push you to the edge of your patience, and you will lose it. It's all good. Just try to keep calm. Even if you lose it once, just try to do better the next time.

-There is no instruction manual for kids - it was forgotten by the doctor inside the mother's womb - for every kid ever born :) So yeah, we're all winging it!

-My kids are 6 and 8. They have given me a new range of emotions that I never knew existed and have made me better for it.

-Kids make you value your time. Learn from that lesson.

Re: Having Kids

#674

Post by sibeliuss »

otikik wrote: post #385
gist wrote: post #344

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Older guy with advice here. Spend as much time as you can preparing financially for the future. Your kids when they get older will care more about what you have done and what you can do for them and forget the fact that you missed spending time with them for honestly what are trivial events (while that may be true in some cases it's also I feel a myth created by writers and Hollywood and certain 'whiners' where it ma…

Just a word of warning here: my dad thinks along similar lines. He's extremely self-centered. Anything good that happens to him is his doing, and anything bad is someone else's fault. And he has zero empathy. After he had his third affair and my mother divorced him, my my brothers and I gradually cut ties with him. He is just not pleasant to be around. He doesn't understand this. He thinks he is "owned" some love, af…

My dad too. And same thing, about a decade not talking and now a very superficial relationship that is more sad than anything. All he cared about was money, no empathy, everyone else's fault. Not fun growing up around this -- and can't remember a single time he ever read to me. But I remember my mother often doing such (amongst other things), and we have a very close relationship.

> What my kids (grown now) care about? That I can afford to give them money to help pay with their rent and any financial issues and that their Dad is not 'a loser'.

Well, maybe you should have done a bit more and this relationship would be a little bit less transactional. Something to think about.

Re: Having Kids

#675

Post by abalashov »

kmarc wrote: post #547
coldtea wrote: post #523

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> and they only interact with you for 1-2 hours during the day and don't really know who you are As if 1-2 hours per day is "little"? That's not in any way why kids "don't listen to and respect their parents when they grow up". Kids spent even less "quality time" with their parents (a relatively modern boomer invention) back in the old times when they did fully "listened to and respected" them.

Hmm... I thought the 9-5, office work, working for other people/businesses are the modern inventions and for tens of thousands of years mankind spent 80%+ of the day with their offsprings/families/villages. It's interesting to think that "quality time" which in this context simply means "2 hours per day together" should be enough. This is not how humans evolved. As harsh as it sounds, the philosophical question above…

This question assumes that daycare is just, generically, a warehouse for kids. That is certainly true of some daycares. Some do perform a useful pedagogical function, more in line with what one can expect in more well-developed public state kindergarten/preschool/daycare systems in the Western European states. Moreover, as a sibling commenter pointed out, they get to see other kids there and develop socially--and this is particularly important given the propensity of most Americans to live in fairly insular suburban bubble-houses, and more generally the lack of a public realm and civic space that suburbia entails. It's not like they'd otherwise be out running around with other kids; they'd most likely be marinating at home in front of the TV.

I'd go so far as to say that not sending one's child to some kind of playgroup before school age is irresponsible.

Re: Having Kids

#676

Post by jelliclesfarm »

Congratulations. You have made part of your DNA immortal by procreating.

Having kids is the only way to ensure life. It’s not you. There is no ‘you’. It’s the genes.

Now substitute ‘part of me’ every time the word ‘children’ appear in the article or any of the comments.

Re: Having Kids

#677

Post by kristofferR »

dvko wrote: post #664
austhrow743 wrote: post #637

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Population is a huge part of that equation and it's not talked about. There are people going around shitting out kids left right and centre and I'm treated like the antichrist for wanting some bottled water.

That is probably mostly because the population argument is usually used by people in rich countries in order not to have to change anything, despite the fact that on average, a 10-person family in rural Africa emits less CO2 than a single individual in the US. I agree there is probably no good reason for anyone to have more than 4 kids (at most, probably just 2 to go for a manageable population decline) but lifestyle…

You can presume that your kid will have roughly the same lifestyle, and emissions, as you over a lifetime - so having a kid is a decision of doubling your emissions.

Re: Having Kids

#678

Post by djsumdog »

daxfohl wrote: post #258

So my experience was the opposite. I came in expecting this great "chemical change" where suddenly the world revolved around my kids and their future. Well the latter part is true: my world now revolves around them and their futures. But chemical change? No. It's just the responsibility I have now. There's never a break. It's all-encompassing. I mean, it's survivable, I can deal with it, and I do the best I can, but,…

Did it get easier to change at all once they were old enough for school?

I'm genuinely glad you said this too. I don't have children and don't really want them. I think it's totally fine if people want to have kids.

Even if there isn't a discernible change in your cognitive and thought processes, human beings still can be happy with the choices we make (and we're actually less happy with reversible choices; see Dan Gilbert's talk on happiness).

Re: Having Kids

#679

Post by austhrow743 »

kristofferR wrote: post #677
dvko wrote: post #664

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is probably mostly because the population argument is usually used by people in rich countries in order not to have to change anything, despite the fact that on average, a 10-person family in rural Africa emits less CO2 than a single individual in the US. I agree there is probably no good reason for anyone to have more than 4 kids (at most, probably just 2 to go for a manageable population decline) but lifestyle…

You can presume that your kid will have roughly the same lifestyle, and emissions, as you over a lifetime - so having a kid is a decision of doubling your emissions.

It doesn't end there. Kid will probably have kids that have the same lifestyle as well. Who will also probably have kids, etc.

Re: Having Kids

#680

Post by djsumdog »

kelnos wrote: post #549
daxfohl wrote: post #425

I'd even go further and say it's irresponsible these days to post things like this. If nothing else, because we know the Earth cannot support many more people. Or at least it's looking that way. I think as a society we need to get away from sappy Hallmark channel stuff like this and celebrate the individual. We should not be made to feel like having kids is some transcendental thing. Studies consistently show childle…

> Studies consistently show childless people are happiest irrespective of age. Funny, another poster somewhere here suggested that studies show people with young children are less happy, but after about 5 years old or so, happiness is roughly the same, and after the parents turn 60, happiness and health tends to be higher than for older people without kids. No one seems to be posting sources, so it's hard to verify t…

Yea and once you start digging through the papers, it can get all over the place. I mean, trying to measure happiness is pretty subjective anyway. It's almost always a self-reported score and there are so many other variables it's difficult to lock down solid correlation.

I'm not sure if it's possible to tell if kids make people happier or not. There are simply too many other factors.

If you want kids have them and if you don't, then don't. Your mind will compensate if you see it as a non-reversible decision. Our minds have a power psychological immune system to help us accept whatever irreversible choices we've made (Dan Gilbert does a good talk on this. I also wrote a post about this about 10 years back: https://battlepenguin.com/philosophy/science/time/).

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