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Uber and Lyft Suggest the Days of Cheap Rides Could Be Over

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Re: Uber and Lyft Suggest the Days of Cheap Rides Could Be Over

#271

Post by umvi »

luckycharms810 wrote: post #172
umvi wrote: post #136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The discouragement is "demerits on your license"[1] which go toward revoking it. Hence why you don't see rich people speeding around all the time even though the they can afford to pay the fines - they don't want to lose their license. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Point_system_(driving)

I think it might help to flip the argument on its head. If you are a low income person struggling to make ends meet - should you have to forego a meal or two ? Is it fair if a richer person does not have to do the same ? All things considered I’d bet you the higher wealth person still has the less impactful fine.

It's not like speeding tickets are inevitable. I've been driving for over 17 years and I've never been pulled over once (knock on wood). But sure, I don't mind proportional speeding tickets (I never get them), but I think it's a slippery slope of socialism where you start thinking everything should have proportional costs. Why should rich and poor both pay $3 for a gallon milk? Shouldn't the rich pay $30 for a gallon of milk? Heck, they are so out of touch with food costs anyway they probably wouldn't notice.[1]

[1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ad_higXixRA

Re: Uber and Lyft Suggest the Days of Cheap Rides Could Be Over

#272

Post by chrismcb »

mcrae wrote: post #66
6gvONxR4sf7o wrote: post #31

> ...the company’s upcoming pricing algorithms, which they hinted might be able to more precisely predict what riders might be willing to pay for a ride. I hate the whole idea of this. If they track you around, maybe realize you order from fancy places on uber eats, then they will raise prices on something that costs them the same. There's something that strikes me as especially awful about automating the "how much i…

Isn’t price discrimination embedded in nearly every transaction we engage in, though? What is the difference between price discrimination between classes of individuals (to your point, business vs leisure travellers), and individuals themselves? Nearly every pricing guide on this site recommends offering an ‘invoiced’ pricing plan for enterprises for substantially more than the same service on credit card billing. Pr…

It typically is not the same service. The enterprise plan typically comes with better or faster customer support, or more resources, or something.it may not always reflect the entire value of the value add. But it is rarely the same service.

Re: Uber and Lyft Suggest the Days of Cheap Rides Could Be Over

#273

Post by chadlavi »

paxys wrote: post #85

Honestly, it's probably for the best. Over the last decade it has become the expectation that - at the tap of a button - a taxi will appear and take you across the city (or three blocks over) for a few bucks. People need to realize that this isn't reality. The entire industry has been subsidized by VCs and desperate drivers working below minimum wage since day 1. If, after paying drivers fairly, complying with local…

Few bucks? You ever taken a Lyft or Uber between boroughs in New York?

Re: Uber and Lyft Suggest the Days of Cheap Rides Could Be Over

#275

Post by throwaway2048 »

manigandham wrote: post #265
nannal wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why? If I'm a poor speeding Fin, then a non-scaled speeding ticket could cost me a good number of days food. If I'm a rich speeding Fin then a non-scaled ticket is just the cost to travel quickly. When you're wealthy enough fines don't matter there's no point in the police enforcing them aside from as an additional income stream.

If this were the case, then rich people everywhere else would be speeding like crazy and just paying the small fines. That clearly is not the case, because fines are not the only thing rendered as a penalty. Driving privileges and criminal prosecution are quickly added on as behavior changes, even if it's small violations that add up. Everyone faces the same financial, driving access, and legal risk which equally dis…

It is objectively not the same financial risk for a wealthy person, if everyone pays the same fee.

Re: Uber and Lyft Suggest the Days of Cheap Rides Could Be Over

#276

Post by john-radio »

ikeboy wrote: post #174
john-radio wrote: post #163

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Therefore, if the rate is higher for some people, it's either insufficiently disincentivizing poorer people from speeding, or excessively disincentivizing richer people. I don't understand how you reached this conclusion. > Speeding has a constant negative effect on society. It doesn't vary based on how wealthy the speeder is. The point of a speeding ticket isn't to make things right or to make amends for the bad e…

Yes, if you value doing something more than the negative value to society, you should be permitted to do it. This is the entire point of pigovian taxes.

Oh, I see what you're saying. Then no, taxes like this are not pigovian if pigovian means (wiki:) to "correct an undesirable or inefficient market outcome, and [to do so] by being set equal to the social cost of the negative externalities".

Again, that goal is impossible with speeding tickets. The "negative externality" in this case is literally that someone dies. Someone (a lot of someones) lose their kid, their life partner, their parent. Can you apply relatively simple financial analysis to assign a dollar value to that? Sure, but fuck the kind of person that wants to do that; that is not acceptable for any so-called "justice system."

The point of the tax is not to "correct the undesirable outcome" but rather to avert it as much as possible using reasonable techniques.

And no, the rich absolutely should not be allowed to do it more.

Re: Uber and Lyft Suggest the Days of Cheap Rides Could Be Over

#277

Post by Cerium »

john-radio wrote: post #163
ikeboy wrote: post #151

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Speeding has a constant negative effect on society. It doesn't vary based on how wealthy the speeder is. Therefore, if the rate is higher for some people, it's either insufficiently disincentivizing poorer people from speeding, or excessively disincentivizing richer people. Pigovian taxes should be constant. And if it's not pigovian, why give tickets at all?

> Therefore, if the rate is higher for some people, it's either insufficiently disincentivizing poorer people from speeding, or excessively disincentivizing richer people. I don't understand how you reached this conclusion. > Speeding has a constant negative effect on society. It doesn't vary based on how wealthy the speeder is. The point of a speeding ticket isn't to make things right or to make amends for the bad e…

I think the argument is over whether the fine must be denominated in currency units. As I understand it the Finnish system chooses to price their speeding crimes in days of spending money. If you don't mind paying the fine in those units, you can just as well ignore the law.

Re: Uber and Lyft Suggest the Days of Cheap Rides Could Be Over

#278

Post by ikeboy »

john-radio wrote: post #276
ikeboy wrote: post #174

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, if you value doing something more than the negative value to society, you should be permitted to do it. This is the entire point of pigovian taxes.

Oh, I see what you're saying. Then no, taxes like this are not pigovian if pigovian means (wiki:) to "correct an undesirable or inefficient market outcome, and [to do so] by being set equal to the social cost of the negative externalities". Again, that goal is impossible with speeding tickets. The "negative externality" in this case is literally that someone dies. Someone (a lot of someones) lose their kid, their lif…

Pigovian taxes are applied to mortal situations all the time. The most famous example is probably a carbon tax.

>The point of the tax is not to "correct the undesirable outcome" but rather to avert it as much as possible using reasonable techniques.

If you want to avert it as much as possible, set a million dollar fine for everyone. Why is that unreasonable in your view? If you don't think that would be a good idea, you're implicitly valuing it at less than a million dollars.

Re: Uber and Lyft Suggest the Days of Cheap Rides Could Be Over

#279

Post by denimnerd42 »

Spooky23 wrote: post #251
denimnerd42 wrote: post #182

Earlier quoted context omitted.

those probably weren't all the same product though? like impact resistance shingles with an air gapped radiant barrier layed down with a ventilated roof line and all that fancy stuff is certainly going to cost more than generic shingles over tar paper.

Nope. I gave them a bill of materials for apples to apples offers!

that's pretty crazy. thats like a high end metal roof with all the extras on the high end you were quoted for.

Re: Uber and Lyft Suggest the Days of Cheap Rides Could Be Over

#280

Post by drdeadringer »

paxys wrote: post #85

Honestly, it's probably for the best. Over the last decade it has become the expectation that - at the tap of a button - a taxi will appear and take you across the city (or three blocks over) for a few bucks. People need to realize that this isn't reality. The entire industry has been subsidized by VCs and desperate drivers working below minimum wage since day 1. If, after paying drivers fairly, complying with local…

I have had occasion to call a taxi home after public transit has shut down [a decision I made myself knowing consequences].

When I expressed what the general cost was to my [rather cheap] parent who still lives in 1973, he was astounded. "Why are you shocked and horrified? $45 is a good deal for a 1am taxi at that distance. I cannot believe you've suddenly forgotten about inflation. If you want 1973 taxi prices, go back to 1973 or do an uber."

It appears that a latter part of my quip shall become null and void in a near future.

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