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Having Kids

paulgraham.com

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Re: Having Kids

#341

Post by sershe »

jv22222 wrote: post #202

This is one of the best and most accurate things I have ever seen written about having kids - it truly is a paradigm shift for your life - in a good way. My kid (5yo boy) is very outgoing and talks to just about anyone he meets, about anything that comes to his mind (which is usually some aspect of playing Minecraft or Slime Ranchers). He gets so excited about it and tells them about his latest discovery like Minecra…

I had this experience with nephews (I have 6 now, I think) and the kids conversations, taken at face value of their content, are just super boring. Repetitive, often make no sense, and really simplistic. It's like a football fan who doesn't even know much about football but keeps telling you about how his team is going big this year and playoff odds he read off 538. People with kids give kids a large leeway to be boring because they are used to doing this for their own kids, or as PG mentions because now they suddenly like all the kids, I dunno. People without kids just treat the conversation like it should be treated... except with a super boring acquaintance it's socially acceptable to get distracted by someone else in the room and then avoid them forever, whereas with kids it isn't, so you have to wing something to make them go away while seeming nice.

Re: Having Kids

#342

Post by asdff »

buboard wrote: post #199

Worth noting that this is a western city- centric view of children. It's much different for people living in small communities or near parents and other family. Children spend way less time near parents when the neighborhood is familiar and safe enough, and instead spend most of their time playing with other kids. Parents today spend twice as much time with their kids than 2 generations ago, and it's probably not bec…

I wouldn't conflate it to a western view, but a suburban one.

Most suburbs lack the density to make neighborhood friends. None of my friends from school lived near me; my little neck of the suburbs was occupied by retirees or kids over a decade apart from me. Visiting friends meant parents organizing a play date and a 15 minute one way car ride. There are rare cases where you do have a little neighborhood gang to play with, but it wasn't like when my parents grew up in the 50s-60s when an entire generation was birthed in sync and you could walk to 8 kids houses on a whim. Suburbs used to be only new families, with zero retirees when they began.

Living in LA now, I get to see that urban upbringing I missed. Kids are always walking around with their friends or siblings, visiting parks and rec centers, taking transit, walking to school, going to stores, etc. There are enough people where even though the generations of kids are blurred compared to the massive pulse of the boomer generation, you live among so many people that there will always be a few kids your age nearby that you can play with.

Suburbs or in the city, this rate of having a similar aged neighbor is probably the same, so upping the amount of neighbors makes this outcome almost assured.

Re: Having Kids

#343

Post by perlgeek »

tenpies wrote: post #49
lordleft wrote: post #23

The decision to have kids is a lot like the decision to continue living. There is no logical basis for it. Or rather, any latticework of logic you erect to justify this choice is based on a foundation that has nothing to do with reason. It is an emotional and spiritual desire to live and love, and give more life and more love to the world. That's why I when see people engage in complex rational calculations about the…

Agree. In many ways I wonder if we're seeing a couple compounding forces at play: * The introduction of birth control and giving people (yes both men and women) too much control over procreation without having to control the impulse for procreation. * Seeing people solely as material beings as a consequence of the Enlightenment. After all, if you're just the matter you're composed off then you're no more special than…

> The introduction of birth control and giving people (yes both men and women) too much control over procreation without having to control the impulse for procreation.

Why "too much" control? I'm curious why you think the amount of control is larger than it should be (and to what end).

Re: Having Kids

#344

Post by gist »

triangleman wrote: post #131

Hey guys. Anyone else have the experience of having kids, getting a burst of energy, but of course all that energy goes directly back into the kids and house, and you have absolutely no life for 3-5 years or more? Because my kids are 2 and 4 and so far it's been 4 years of no life, no freelance clients, almost no learning/hobbies, just 35-40 hours a week of working as much as I can at the office and then everything i…

Older guy with advice here. Spend as much time as you can preparing financially for the future. Your kids when they get older will care more about what you have done and what you can do for them and forget the fact that you missed spending time with them for honestly what are trivial events (while that may be true in some cases it's also I feel a myth created by writers and Hollywood and certain 'whiners' where it mattered).

What my kids (grown now) care about? That I can afford to give them money to help pay with their rent and any financial issues and that their Dad is not 'a loser'. Not whether I read them books or went to games or school events. It's all perspective and how you present it to them honestly.

But to your question yes it's a huge energy drain. Not going to get better either. Just try not to get sucked into things 'because that is what you do for kids and if you don't they will resent it and they will be screwed up'. Not true. Ok maybe in some edge cases true but many of us that are older grew up in a era where Dad and Mom were not our friends and we didn't want them to be either.

Re: Having Kids

#345

Post by mythz »

triangleman wrote: post #131

Hey guys. Anyone else have the experience of having kids, getting a burst of energy, but of course all that energy goes directly back into the kids and house, and you have absolutely no life for 3-5 years or more? Because my kids are 2 and 4 and so far it's been 4 years of no life, no freelance clients, almost no learning/hobbies, just 35-40 hours a week of working as much as I can at the office and then everything i…

There's not a lot you can do except be super mindful about where you spend your time and try to optimize your time management as much as you can. You basically can't waste any time, even the "time breaks" during work I acknowledge as a luxury "stress-free" period and try to make the most of by relaxing, clearing my head and not thinking about anything as much as possible.

I'm fortunate to be able to work from home which saves the time on commuting, but you'll want a private office to avoid interruptions, esp. important for any concentration-intensive work like programming. But there's no getting around it, all kids before school needs to be supervised at all times, either with day care, a full time in-house nanny or as it's now in my case my better half is effectively the full-time nanny during the work day. We're starting to see some light at the tunnel with the eldest just starting school but as our youngest is only 10 days old, it's going to be a long time before they're all in school. At the same time, you're going to miss this time you had when they are this young so you've also got to cherish the journey before the parental reprieve when you get to lock them in the school system during the day :)

The only tip I have for prospective parents is to get all your travelling, hobbies and interests out of the way pre-kids as your life after kids essentially is going to revolve around the kids and family commitments.

Another time saving habit I keep forgetting about (that differentiates from my childhood) since it's been eradicated from our daily lives is not watching TV, we only watch Netflix/Prime À la carte on occasion when we have downtime (i.e. kids are in bed), but the time you save is more productively spent on your interests and hobbies.

Re: Having Kids

#346

Post by TheAlchemist »

My experiences matches very well Paul's. Especially this one "I remember perfectly well what life was like before. Well enough to miss some things a lot, like the ability to take off for some other country at a moment's notice. That was so great. Why did I never do that?

See what I did there? The fact is, most of the freedom I had before kids, I never used."

For me, it was the case with my ambitions. I sometimes, not so often, catch myself thinking "damn, if I just had more time (implicitly thinking - less time spent on taking care of my kids), I could achieve this and this". But that's pure bullshit. I had plenty of time before kids, and I didn't use it. Period.

I actually think, I'm doing more things now, that I have kids. Precisely because I have so many responsibilities, I do care a lot about my free time and how I spend it. It turns out, we all have plenty of time. We just waste most of it.

Having kids, I feel like it's my obligation to show them how to best live their life. And since kids, very often, just try to copy what you do, there is no better way to show them than just living the best life you can. Win-win.

Besides, as Paul says, kids are pure joy and they are extremely interesting (especially if you are interested in machine learning :D ).

Re: Having Kids

#347

Post by beebmam »

It's very simple why I haven't had children and why I won't be having them: I don't trust any of the people I've met in my life to raise any children I'd create them with, and I don't believe I'll be meeting anyone else where this would change.

Even if having children would reduce my loneliness, I simply don't think it's moral to subject them to any potential abuse or cruelty on the part of potential partners I've met in my life.

I'm old enough now that having children just doesn't make sense for me. I'd rather spend my time improving the lives of those that already exist, including my own.

Re: Having Kids

#348

Post by yesimahuman »

jrrrr wrote: post #318
yesimahuman wrote: post #300

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My kids are 1 and 3 and I feel like I get plenty of work done still. That was my biggest fear as I’m running a startup but don’t feel a significant difference on that front from before. My spouse is very supportive otherwise that would be much harder. Oh and one of the biggest surprises for me was how much free time there was immediately post baby. I actually got a lot of work done because there was nothing else to d…

> the baby just sleeps all day! Be careful how liberally you express this sentiment. Many babies don't.

Both ours slept the majority of the day in the weeks after they were born, and that seems to be pretty common amongst my friends as well. Of course, every baby is different and YMMV!

Re: Having Kids

#349

Post by asdff »

legel wrote: post #200
burlesona wrote: post #70

I agree with this a lot. I was pretty anti-kid, not in the sense that I didn’t want them ever, but that I didn’t want them “any time soon.” My wife was this way too, until one day she wasn’t. I still felt pretty ambivalent about the whole thing until our first was born. Children really are interesting, and really do fill life with all kinds of quietly wonderful moments. We live in San Francisco, which is very hilly.…

The car-is-anti-human sentiment is one I can deeply empathize with. Just like oxygen and water, cars and their perils were with our generation since birth, and therefore for most are subconsciously taken for granted in life. But once you spend enough time in urban areas that have consciously rooted them out, you realize that their super loud noises, toxic smelly fumes, and omnipresent fear of death from them are inde…

Actually a pretty old project, but take a look at the Park la Brea development in LA. It's a gated community in the middle of the town taking up two city blocks. They are extending the subway there as we speak.

There's also the village green, where the interior of the development is completely pedestrian only. That place isn't far from the expo light rail and the upcoming lax light rail.

LA has a lot of small bungalow courts that face inward to a courtyard rather than the street, but they aren't nearly to the scale as the above developments.

Re: Having Kids

#350

Post by perlgeek »

pkorzeniewski wrote: post #237

One thing that started to bother me recently is the meaningless of life in general. Think about humans from a wide perspective - it all boils down to survival of the species and what difference does it make if we reproduce in a cave or a modern house? Sure there are more of us now, but does it really matter? We are driven by a simple algorithm - find a partner, reproduce, keep the babies alive and die. Repeat. No rea…

Oh, the age old question for meaning in life.

There are basically three possible answers to that:

1) The scientific one you alluded to. Our purpose is to make our genes survive (though that in turn serves no greater purpose, that's just the mechanics of evolution)

2) religious / spiritual reasons, if you believe in those

3) the realization that a rational meaning (or lack thereof) doesn't matter much if you feel a sense of purpose

Having kids moved me pretty firmly in camp 3), though I realize the irony that that's a direct consequence of how 1) works :-)

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