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Zhaoxin Unveiled Next-Generation x86 SoC Plans

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Re: Zhaoxin Unveiled Next-Generation x86 SoC Plans

#31
post #12
post #2

For those who don't know, Zhaoxin is a continuation of the Via x86 line. Neat to see a third vendor still kicking.

Fourth vendor actually! Centaur just announced a new core for the server market and even AVX-512 support. See this https://fuse.wikichip.org/news/3099/centaur-unveils-its-new-...

Zhaoxin - is a design licenses from Via, the maker of Centaur

Re: Zhaoxin Unveiled Next-Generation x86 SoC Plans

#32
post #23
post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hard pass then.

Pretty sure these aren't meant for us. Probably building them so they don't have to use American parts. What's funny is that everyone claims that no one wants decoupling. While at the same time, everyone is also taking measures which are at once, very rational, and lead inevitably to a decoupled world.

It has more to do with state grants, which in China are quite big

Re: Zhaoxin Unveiled Next-Generation x86 SoC Plans

#33
post #15
post #2

For those who don't know, Zhaoxin is a continuation of the Via x86 line. Neat to see a third vendor still kicking.

For those who don't know, Zhaoxin _never_ released any x86 product. Over the last 10? years their only output have been laughable roadmaps listing non existing processors.

Leonove ThinkPads with Zhaoxin prosessors have been spotted in China. https://imgur.com/a/kIK8bmw

Re: Zhaoxin Unveiled Next-Generation x86 SoC Plans

#34
post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fourth vendor actually! Centaur just announced a new core for the server market and even AVX-512 support. See this https://fuse.wikichip.org/news/3099/centaur-unveils-its-new-...

Awesome! And some tensor cores for inference, neat! Honestly, wouldn't be surprised to see more vendors spring up out of nowhere soon. The base patents are about to expire on x86_64. Everyone keeps saying that Apple is going to release an ARM laptop, but IMO a homegrown x86_64 chip is way more likely.

Does Apple have any experience making x86_64 processors? Do they even have the license to do so?

Re: Zhaoxin Unveiled Next-Generation x86 SoC Plans

#35
post #32
post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Pretty sure these aren't meant for us. Probably building them so they don't have to use American parts. What's funny is that everyone claims that no one wants decoupling. While at the same time, everyone is also taking measures which are at once, very rational, and lead inevitably to a decoupled world.

It has more to do with state grants, which in China are quite big

Which they are forced to give. If US companies stop selling components to China, it’s back to the stone age for them.

Re: Zhaoxin Unveiled Next-Generation x86 SoC Plans

#36
post #32
post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Pretty sure these aren't meant for us. Probably building them so they don't have to use American parts. What's funny is that everyone claims that no one wants decoupling. While at the same time, everyone is also taking measures which are at once, very rational, and lead inevitably to a decoupled world.

It has more to do with state grants, which in China are quite big

And government tech grants are very rational. We give them out in the US as well. Governments have their goals. I can understand that.

I'm just saying that the amalgamation of rational actions on the part of everyone involved has the potential to lead us to the decoupled world that everyone claims they don't want.

Of course China should fund their chip industry. It's common sense. Long term, they should probably be using their own chips. Also common sense. But imagine the same common sense being applied across the economies of all great nations in every critical sector. Think about where such measures lead in terms of global trade.

Maybe it's good? Not saying it's a definite bad thing. I'm a dad, when my kids were younger, if they couldn't get along I made them take their things and go back to their rooms. I have to admit, that made for a much more peaceful house. I'm just saying that it's probably better for the development of the children for them to peacefully play together.

Re: Zhaoxin Unveiled Next-Generation x86 SoC Plans

#37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Awesome! And some tensor cores for inference, neat! Honestly, wouldn't be surprised to see more vendors spring up out of nowhere soon. The base patents are about to expire on x86_64. Everyone keeps saying that Apple is going to release an ARM laptop, but IMO a homegrown x86_64 chip is way more likely.

Does Apple have any experience making x86_64 processors? Do they even have the license to do so?

If the parents are expired, they don't need a license. The base patents are expiring very very soon (ie. months).

Re: Zhaoxin Unveiled Next-Generation x86 SoC Plans

#38
post #35
post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It has more to do with state grants, which in China are quite big

Which they are forced to give. If US companies stop selling components to China, it’s back to the stone age for them.

Iran is pretty far away from the stone age, despite US sanctions. If the components can't be sold legally, they can still be smuggled. The added inefficiency would of course drive prices up, but it wouldn't be quite as disastrous as you seem to believe.

Re: Zhaoxin Unveiled Next-Generation x86 SoC Plans

#39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Does Apple have any experience making x86_64 processors? Do they even have the license to do so?

If the parents are expired, they don't need a license. The base patents are expiring very very soon (ie. months).

Interesting proposition, something I haven't read anyone put forward before.

But Apple Scaling their current High Performance ARM design using HPC Node and higher Clock speed is likely much easier than doing a high performance x86 design.

Even Amazon decided to use ARM for their Server platform, to me I think ARM has won the game.

Re: Zhaoxin Unveiled Next-Generation x86 SoC Plans

#40
post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If the parents are expired, they don't need a license. The base patents are expiring very very soon (ie. months).

Interesting proposition, something I haven't read anyone put forward before. But Apple Scaling their current High Performance ARM design using HPC Node and higher Clock speed is likely much easier than doing a high performance x86 design. Even Amazon decided to use ARM for their Server platform, to me I think ARM has won the game.

Apple's chip teams have worked on other ISAs before, and there's tons of ex Transmeta folk around the bay area of you need more x86 experience.

And Amazon AFAIK just cleaned up an existing ARM uarch sort of like Intrinsity's expertise. I don't think they have the experience needed to make their own high perf uarch, whether it be ARM or x86.

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