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Uber and Lyft Suggest the Days of Cheap Rides Could Be Over

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Re: Uber and Lyft Suggest the Days of Cheap Rides Could Be Over

#31

Post by 6gvONxR4sf7o »

> ...the company’s upcoming pricing algorithms, which they hinted might be able to more precisely predict what riders might be willing to pay for a ride.

I hate the whole idea of this. If they track you around, maybe realize you order from fancy places on uber eats, then they will raise prices on something that costs them the same. There's something that strikes me as especially awful about automating the "how much is this individual willing to pay." It's like the worst parts of searching for air fare.

Yet another reason to advocate for privacy, so they can't just buy records about you to determine your price sensitivity from the rest of your life.

If everything everyone bought had perfect information on what they're willing to pay, I wonder what markets would look like. Would getting a raise immediately cancel itself out?

Re: Uber and Lyft Suggest the Days of Cheap Rides Could Be Over

#32

Post by sweeneyrod »

rasengan wrote: post #3

This is untrue. Without a doubt, with autonomous vehicles, efficient energy usage, storage and harvest via non eco damaging sources like solar power, the cost of rides will get cheaper.

Why should we expect Uber and Lyft to be the first to solve autonomous vehicles, rather Google/Tesla/a startup that is completely dedicated to self-driving?

Re: Uber and Lyft Suggest the Days of Cheap Rides Could Be Over

#33

Post by ghaff »

maksimum wrote: post #27

> more precisely predict what riders might be willing to pay for a ride It's weird to me that this sort of price discrimination is legal. E.g. given this information, my incentive as a rider is to never tip (so that their algorithm doesn't identify me as "willing to pay" more). Maybe I could also make a new Lyft account every time I need a ride?

I think that statement was about riders in the collective sense. Riders are typically willing to pay more, e.g. on New Years Eve than on a random afternoon.

But, in any case, dynamic pricing at both the individual and the collective level is pretty widespread these days. By and large--there are some exceptions--companies don't have to sell at a fixed price to all people at all times.

Re: Uber and Lyft Suggest the Days of Cheap Rides Could Be Over

#34

Post by windexh8er »

Rideshare can be profitable for everyone just like Craigslist is. The problem is that Uber and Lyft decided they were large enterprise with a SMB profit model. You could gut 80% of either and if all you had left was drivers making good wages and the service fees for using the app to support the backend you'd be sitting in a lucrative spot. Yet both companies jumped in way too far and way too early. R&D at Uber hasn't delivered and they've continued to burn cash. WeWork, Uber, Lyft - all built on a greed model. Most drivers that I've talked to in the last few months complain how their pay stays the same or goes down and the ride prices continue to increase. These companies are like cancer: just there to take as much as they can and hopefully steamroll the real drivers that bootstrapped them into autonomous ride services. If Uber/Lyft fail someone else will come back around to pick up the key pieces that can work. But for now your "cheap rides are over" - because Uber and Lyft have decided that is the answer to the problem they've created.

Re: Uber and Lyft Suggest the Days of Cheap Rides Could Be Over

#35

Post by rongenre »

rasengan wrote: post #3

This is untrue. Without a doubt, with autonomous vehicles, efficient energy usage, storage and harvest via non eco damaging sources like solar power, the cost of rides will get cheaper.

Autonomous vehicles in cities aren't even close. And if they exist, then all the capital and operational expenses of ownership - which they've been fooling drivers into paying -- are theirs.

Re: Uber and Lyft Suggest the Days of Cheap Rides Could Be Over

#36

Post by ghaff »

seriesf wrote: post #30
ghaff wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a reasonable working assumption that "ride share" prices end up somewhere around where taxi prices are--with the possible exception of places like London where black cabs are somewhat of a premium service relative to minicabs, etc.

I don’t see how the Uber model can ever approach the price of a taxi. Traditional taxis had purpose-built vehicles, shared garages, parts bought at wholesale, and cars on duty all day every day. Uber drivers have disposable Toyotas, pay individually retail prices for insurance, maintenance, and parts, and their vehicles are usually parked. The traditional model has the advantage on cost.

I don't necessarily disagree although I might argue, for example, that maybe Uber drivers are willing to take a smaller cut in exchange for the flexibility they have. But you make a good argument in general that there's certainly little reason to think that Uber rides should be significantly cheaper than cab rides are given a sustainable profitable business.

Re: Uber and Lyft Suggest the Days of Cheap Rides Could Be Over

#37

Post by Retric »

fallat wrote: post #26
pradn wrote: post #17

"When will these darlings of Silicon Valley begin to turn a profit?" The funny thing is criticism of these two companies has been vociferous on Hacker News since the very beginning. I'm not sure what company I'd even call a darling. Every example I can think of FAANG, Dropbox, Slack, etc all have various criticisms. Perhaps Spotify? But it's not a Silicon Valley company.

I've been on a SharkTank binge just for fun, and one thing I notice is, every time a Silicon Valley company goes to pitch, the idea has some pretty bad problems: 1. The margin is high but the idea is easily copied 2. A ton of money has already been invested, and still not making money 3. Other things I can't remember at this moment I think SV has some sort of problem when it comes to starting businesses. Rarely somet…

The go big or go home mindset is useful for specific kinds of investors. If you have 100+ million your not going to notice the returns if you’re a partner at a modestly successful restaurant.

Yes the odds are terrible that you happen to fund the next Google. But, the allure is the same thing that gets people to play the lottery even with negative expected returns.

Re: Uber and Lyft Suggest the Days of Cheap Rides Could Be Over

#38

Post by askafriend »

fallat wrote: post #26
pradn wrote: post #17

"When will these darlings of Silicon Valley begin to turn a profit?" The funny thing is criticism of these two companies has been vociferous on Hacker News since the very beginning. I'm not sure what company I'd even call a darling. Every example I can think of FAANG, Dropbox, Slack, etc all have various criticisms. Perhaps Spotify? But it's not a Silicon Valley company.

I've been on a SharkTank binge just for fun, and one thing I notice is, every time a Silicon Valley company goes to pitch, the idea has some pretty bad problems: 1. The margin is high but the idea is easily copied 2. A ton of money has already been invested, and still not making money 3. Other things I can't remember at this moment I think SV has some sort of problem when it comes to starting businesses. Rarely somet…

You shouldn’t be using SharkTank to form your view on Silicon Valley...

Some of the worst companies get on there, SV or not. Think about it, why would a good company need to go on Shark Tank? They can raise from much better investors if it was a good company.

Re: Uber and Lyft Suggest the Days of Cheap Rides Could Be Over

#39

Post by heavyset_go »

seriesf wrote: post #30
ghaff wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a reasonable working assumption that "ride share" prices end up somewhere around where taxi prices are--with the possible exception of places like London where black cabs are somewhat of a premium service relative to minicabs, etc.

I don’t see how the Uber model can ever approach the price of a taxi. Traditional taxis had purpose-built vehicles, shared garages, parts bought at wholesale, and cars on duty all day every day. Uber drivers have disposable Toyotas, pay individually retail prices for insurance, maintenance, and parts, and their vehicles are usually parked. The traditional model has the advantage on cost.

The Uber model relies on an underclass whose need for cash right now overrides any concerns they might have down the line about vehicle depreciation, the consequences of operating a taxi on a consumer insurance plan, the high self-employment tax burden, health insurance or actually breaking even after taking those factors into account.

Re: Uber and Lyft Suggest the Days of Cheap Rides Could Be Over

#40

Post by thdrdt »

admn2 wrote: post #19

Pretty crazy with Juul, WeWork, DoorDash, and Uber / Lyft all struggling (or showing their true colors) that all the things they sought to kill are coming back. Taxis, cigarettes, picking up your own food! It's amazing to me that people were having food delivered from a half mile away.

This is because most of them start with heavy investments.

But when time has come to make their own money they will discover it is not so easy as thought.

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