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Having Kids

paulgraham.com

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Re: Having Kids

#121

Post by quadrifoliate »

notauser wrote: post #86
quadrifoliate wrote: post #68

Ironically, this essay shows the biggest problem I have with having kids -- especially in the US, people with kids seem to single-mindedly focus on them and can't stop telling you about their kids . What remains of their social lives and all their holidays seem to revolve around the kids. I think pg echoes a bit of this sentiment himself when he says: > To some extent I'm like a religious cultist telling you that you…

It's hard not to talk about the most dominant thing in your life, and only a few people have the skill of being genuinely interested in the priorities of other people. Some people are boring about their hobbies, some are boring about people, some are boring about work, some are boring about their kids. If you find the conversation boring just remember they are probably just as bored at you droning on about blockchain…

This is a fair point. Taking it further, I also think it may just be that people with kids find "kid talk" to be a good default, safe topic of conversation with other people who have kids, so 50% or more of cases it actually makes them more interesting to those other kid-having people they can bond and empathize with.

Whereas I, who am not interested in that stuff, end up mentally putting them all into a single "boring" bucket, while the guy who can't stop talking about his 24-pack of Soylent gets his own separate "boring" bucket.

Re: Having Kids

#122

Post by davidw »

dzohrob wrote: post #95
honkycat wrote: post #77

I'm not knocking Paul Graham or anyone who did well for themselves. But comparing your experience with that of Paul Graham, one of the richest people on the planet, is pointless. The wealthy live on a completely different PLANET than you or me. Of course he enjoys having kids, he has NONE of the stress of supporting himself and his family. His kids are going to have private tutors and house cleaners. He won't sweat t…

As a counterpoint, this essay resonated with me very deeply, and I earn a low salary for an engineer in NYC. We do fine as a family and have to make compromises I couldn’t have imagined making prior to having kids, but it’s totally worth it. This type of experience isn’t universal but doesn’t require massive wealth.

No one is saying it's not possible or not worthwhile; just that it's a very different experience in some ways.

Re: Having Kids

#123

Post by _bxg1 »

For me it's not about some vague sense of "wanting to keep being 'fun'". I know that doesn't last forever. It's the fact that right now, I know there are things that are more important to me in life. And I think it's wrong to have kids if you can't make them the most important thing in your life, while they grow up at least.

I suspect that may change one day: once I've done certain things and had certain experiences and found certain elements of my personal happiness, maybe I'll have room for a priority shift. But I'm comfortable with my knowledge of my own needs. I think premature sacrifice and the inner conflict that follows is what makes for a bad parent.

Re: Having Kids

#125

Post by daenz »

scottLobster wrote: post #27
daenz wrote: post #13

>Having kids is one of those intense types of experience that are hard to imagine unless you've had them. But it is not, as I implicitly believed before having kids, simply your DNA heading for the lifeboats. But it is, because your entire biology has evolved for billions of years with the sole purpose of reproducing effectively. No amount of "I feel like I enjoy it" negates that it is programmed into you as an organ…

I refer you to his later point: "On the other hand, what kind of wimpy ambition do you have if it won't survive having kids? Do you have so little to spare?" I'd argue that your ambition simply shifts upon having kids. If you channel that ambition into being a better parent everyone benefits. And from an "accomplishment" perspective, I'd ask which of a would-be parent's projects are so world-changing that they'll be…

>On the other hand, what kind of wimpy ambition do you have if it won't survive having kids? Do you have so little to spare?"

It's a disingenuous argument. He acknowledges "attention is a zero-sum game" and that having kids has lowered his ambitions. Therefore, it's not a question of what is there "to spare" (implying leftover time/energy), it is a question of "how much are you willing to give up" to make room for the new priority.

It's not a question of ambition being strong or wimpy, it's a question of your tolerance for lowering your ambition.

Re: Having Kids

#126

Post by austincheney »

honkycat wrote: post #77

I'm not knocking Paul Graham or anyone who did well for themselves. But comparing your experience with that of Paul Graham, one of the richest people on the planet, is pointless. The wealthy live on a completely different PLANET than you or me. Of course he enjoys having kids, he has NONE of the stress of supporting himself and his family. His kids are going to have private tutors and house cleaners. He won't sweat t…

I had kids very young. They are nearly grown now.

I watched the people I went to high school with have kids very late allowing more structured time to complete their education as early as possible and excel to vice president positions in the corporate world. They excelled far more quickly and far more early in their careers than I.

In contrast my children will be out of the house and on their own while I am barely middle aged. Since I have never entered management in the corporate world but have grown two simultaneous careers, corporate software developer and military security analyst and network operations chief, I have a combination of skills I would not have developed otherwise.

In a bit when the children are out I can pursue all the career and startup dreams that young people dream of but without regrets or challenges of raising kids. Perhaps I am still naive, but I am certainly not rich.

Re: Having Kids

#127

Post by davidw »

austincheney wrote: post #126
honkycat wrote: post #77

I'm not knocking Paul Graham or anyone who did well for themselves. But comparing your experience with that of Paul Graham, one of the richest people on the planet, is pointless. The wealthy live on a completely different PLANET than you or me. Of course he enjoys having kids, he has NONE of the stress of supporting himself and his family. His kids are going to have private tutors and house cleaners. He won't sweat t…

I had kids very young. They are nearly grown now. I watched the people I went to high school with have kids very late allowing more structured time to complete their education as early as possible and excel to vice president positions in the corporate world. They excelled far more quickly and far more early in their careers than I. In contrast my children will be out of the house and on their own while I am barely mi…

I met a person in a similar situation via a mountain bike group where I live. Kids are out of the house and now he has time for bike riding, date nights and, being in his 40ies is still fit, healthy and very active.

Re: Having Kids

#128

Post by disco_nap »

sombremesa wrote: post #17
nickreese wrote: post #11

Uhh. Just going to chime in here. It is absolutely OK if you don’t experience the emotions he writes about here. You aren’t broken. I write this because I read and it immediately messaged a few friends who respect Paul as well asking them if I was broken. Everyone experiences parenthood differently. I never had the chemical changes in my brain and often over the past 3 years have realized just how selfish I am when i…

I don't have kids but from what I know about small children they're likely to be a thousand times more selfish than you.

Kids demand a lot of time but can be remarkably unselfish. My 3 y.o. daughter made my bed this morning and tries to help me if I seem tired. We help each other out, and parenthood opened me up to a way of living that was less self-interested.

Re: Having Kids

#129

Post by city41 »

It's very socially unacceptable to admit you regret having kids. But the internet has enabled that viewpoint to surface through anonymity. I see having kids as a huge gamble. If you realize it's really not for you, there's no way to go back. I also question the morality of bringing an intelligent, sentient being into this very troubled world without their consent.

Re: Having Kids

#130

Post by bcrosby95 »

daenz wrote: post #13

>Having kids is one of those intense types of experience that are hard to imagine unless you've had them. But it is not, as I implicitly believed before having kids, simply your DNA heading for the lifeboats. But it is, because your entire biology has evolved for billions of years with the sole purpose of reproducing effectively. No amount of "I feel like I enjoy it" negates that it is programmed into you as an organ…

It varies from person to person. For me it was mostly a sacrifice in leisure time. But I spent most of my weekends hanging out with friends and playing games. If you spend 24/7 focused on career, then yeah you're an extremely ambitious outlier and will have less time towards those things you listed.

But in my experience most people actually spend a lot of time hanging out with friends or doing nothing at all. This is where sacrifice of leisure and time management kicks in. I don't actually work on side projects any less than before I had kids. But I play games, hang out with friends, and do nothing a lot less.

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