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Having Kids

paulgraham.com

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Re: Having Kids

#41

Post by jimktrains2 »

scribu wrote: post #18
nickreese wrote: post #11

Uhh. Just going to chime in here. It is absolutely OK if you don’t experience the emotions he writes about here. You aren’t broken. I write this because I read and it immediately messaged a few friends who respect Paul as well asking them if I was broken. Everyone experiences parenthood differently. I never had the chemical changes in my brain and often over the past 3 years have realized just how selfish I am when i…

Can you explain how being selfish (i.e. wanting to do other things instead of taking care of them) makes you a better parent? It's not at all obvious.

My understanding of what was types is that being a good parent doesn't mean you don't feel selfish.

Re: Having Kids

#42

Post by rapind »

scribu wrote: post #18
nickreese wrote: post #11

Uhh. Just going to chime in here. It is absolutely OK if you don’t experience the emotions he writes about here. You aren’t broken. I write this because I read and it immediately messaged a few friends who respect Paul as well asking them if I was broken. Everyone experiences parenthood differently. I never had the chemical changes in my brain and often over the past 3 years have realized just how selfish I am when i…

Can you explain how being selfish (i.e. wanting to do other things instead of taking care of them) makes you a better parent? It's not at all obvious.

I'll chime in and say it's a balance like everything else in life. If your kids instantly get your attention whenever they want they may have a pretty unrealistic expectation of the real world later when they aren't such a special snowflake.

It's tricky business though and varies by context (age, finances, relationships), and I doubt anyone really knows best. You can easily (and will) err on both sides.

Re: Having Kids

#43

Post by haberman »

As someone who has wrestled a lot with the question of whether I ever want kids, I've sought out data. One thing I came across was this: https://www.salon.com/2017/05/09/google-confessional-your-se...

> Adults with children are 3.6 times more likely to tell Google they regret their decision than are adults without children.

I'd be curious if others have data on this. I'm especially interested in how many people have a reaction like Paul Graham (a switch flipped, it's inconvenient but totally worth it) vs. how many end up feeling overwhelmed and regretful. The latter thought carries far more stigma, so it might be harder to know how many people experience this.

Re: Having Kids

#44

Post by twinge »

scribu wrote: post #18
nickreese wrote: post #11

Uhh. Just going to chime in here. It is absolutely OK if you don’t experience the emotions he writes about here. You aren’t broken. I write this because I read and it immediately messaged a few friends who respect Paul as well asking them if I was broken. Everyone experiences parenthood differently. I never had the chemical changes in my brain and often over the past 3 years have realized just how selfish I am when i…

Can you explain how being selfish (i.e. wanting to do other things instead of taking care of them) makes you a better parent? It's not at all obvious.

There is a delicate, nebulous balance between modeling independent adult behavior and being a care giver. Every parent has to decide where that line is; it's constantly changing and difficult to evaluate. We live in an unprecedented time in humanity's history, the longitudinal research is still coming in, and everyone's making up the rules as we go along.

Re: Having Kids

#45

Post by datashow »

daenz wrote: post #13

>Having kids is one of those intense types of experience that are hard to imagine unless you've had them. But it is not, as I implicitly believed before having kids, simply your DNA heading for the lifeboats. But it is, because your entire biology has evolved for billions of years with the sole purpose of reproducing effectively. No amount of "I feel like I enjoy it" negates that it is programmed into you as an organ…

> If you're the type of person for which those points sounds disastrous, don't have kids.

This is not a great advice. Those points only "sounds disastrous". It can be totally changed after you have kids.

As a developer, I always know I will be less productive etc. after having kids. On the other hand, I know I am not a genius, and I know I will be fulfilled more from my kids than from my lost productivity.

And then, you know what? When you get older, you will realize that losing productivity is unavoidable. It is so great to spend time with your family outside of work. Nobody can stay at 20s forever.

There is one more important factor: If you want to have a life without kids, you need to find a partner with the same mind set, which is not easy, or just stay alone.

Re: Having Kids

#46

Post by cushychicken »

...most of the freedom I had before kids, I never used. I paid for it in loneliness, but I never used it.

Paul's written a lot of smart stuff, but this might be the smartest.

I took a lot of steps to protect my freedom before getting engaged to my partner, and I realize now that was a shitty tradeoff. Freedom was an unexercised resource I had, which is to say it was largely wasted on me. I spent a lot of time being lonely - not alone, which implies by choice, but lonely - having no steadfast companionship and with no alternative to that.

Re: Having Kids

#47

Post by spookthesunset »

EliRivers wrote: post #31

Kids are dull so dull SO DULL. It's not their fault. It's not personal. They've never done anything, they've had no experiences, their tastes are bland and repetitive because of their physical state and their limited experience, of course they're dull and uninteresting. It's not their fault, but it's still the case. And they're not even like dull adults whom you can choose not to interact with (and even adults are of…

Other people’s kids can be dull. I can empathize with that...

But my own kid, despite statistically being just like all the kids and could be considered just as dull, is most certainly not dull to me.

Re: Having Kids

#48

Post by scottLobster »

scribu wrote: post #18
nickreese wrote: post #11

Uhh. Just going to chime in here. It is absolutely OK if you don’t experience the emotions he writes about here. You aren’t broken. I write this because I read and it immediately messaged a few friends who respect Paul as well asking them if I was broken. Everyone experiences parenthood differently. I never had the chemical changes in my brain and often over the past 3 years have realized just how selfish I am when i…

Can you explain how being selfish (i.e. wanting to do other things instead of taking care of them) makes you a better parent? It's not at all obvious.

To paraphrase Jordan Peterson:

"No one ever walked into my psychology practice because their parents made them too emotionally independent."

There are some parents out there who continually martyr themselves because they think it makes them a good person (I get 4 hours of sleep a night to make sure my kids have everything! I'm awesome!) but are in fact overinvolved and setting a bad example for the kid by not taking care of themselves. Anecdotally I've found most of my married friends who are/were hesitant about kids were raised by such parents.

It's healthy for the kid to see that the parent needs some enforced level of time to themselves, short of neglect of course. The precise balance is up to the individual.

Re: Having Kids

#49

Post by tenpies »

lordleft wrote: post #23

The decision to have kids is a lot like the decision to continue living. There is no logical basis for it. Or rather, any latticework of logic you erect to justify this choice is based on a foundation that has nothing to do with reason. It is an emotional and spiritual desire to live and love, and give more life and more love to the world. That's why I when see people engage in complex rational calculations about the…

Agree. In many ways I wonder if we're seeing a couple compounding forces at play:

* The introduction of birth control and giving people (yes both men and women) too much control over procreation without having to control the impulse for procreation.

* Seeing people solely as material beings as a consequence of the Enlightenment. After all, if you're just the matter you're composed off then you're no more special than a rock or your iPhone or a dog. Why sacrifice so much material comfort in exchange for the material discomfort that parenting will inevitably cause if the baby is just matter?

Re: Having Kids

#50

Post by EliRivers »

spookthesunset wrote: post #47
EliRivers wrote: post #31

Kids are dull so dull SO DULL. It's not their fault. It's not personal. They've never done anything, they've had no experiences, their tastes are bland and repetitive because of their physical state and their limited experience, of course they're dull and uninteresting. It's not their fault, but it's still the case. And they're not even like dull adults whom you can choose not to interact with (and even adults are of…

Other people’s kids can be dull. I can empathize with that... But my own kid, despite statistically being just like all the kids and could be considered just as dull, is most certainly not dull to me.

Yeah, does that not seem odd? Sure seems like a very suspicious coincidence.

Whatever is doing that to you is a blessing, I suspect, because there are parents out there who do not have that. What must their lives be like?

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