Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

What Happens After Prisoners Learn to Code?

theatlantic.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

121–130 of 244 posts

Re: What Happens After Prisoners Learn to Code?

#121

Post by andrepd »

TulliusCicero wrote: post #2

> We need to applaud companies like Slack, but know that the nitty-gritty of human services—housing, health care, social support—which lots of nonprofits and public institutions are working on, the private sector has largely turned away from.” I mean, yeah? Those things sound like they’re precisely the kind of stuff that’s the domain of non-profits and the government. Why would we expect Slack or other tech companies…

>The private sector does help here, indirectly, with taxes that go to support such programs.

Hah. That would be the idea yes, but we all know how much corporations like paying their tax.

Re: What Happens After Prisoners Learn to Code?

#122

Post by specialist »

rayiner wrote: post #90
analog31 wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The opposite -- a presumption that people always vote in their own best interests -- is equally condescending because it's an expression that nobody can really believe. It's like everybody applauding and saying "good job" at the kindergarten music recital. In my view, evidence that people vote against their own interests is the massive industry that exists for the purpose of making that happen. The respectful middle…

Your logical error is assuming that it’s so obvious what “vot[ing] against [one’s] own interests” means. Maybe a stable free market government with a strong cultural and religious framework is in everyone’s interest, and the “massive industry” exists to convince people of that fact?

He's referring to political campaigns. GOTV, agitprop, advertising, r#tf##king, etc.

Re: What Happens After Prisoners Learn to Code?

#123

Post by likeclockwork »

TulliusCicero wrote: post #28
DaiPlusPlus wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Government is to govern. Government in most countries is driven by democratic mandates. Democratic mandates are set by influencers. The US’ key influencers are largely regressive and dishonest - and convince people to either not vote - or to vote against their personal best interests[1]. The US government does not currently have a democratic mandate to operate as the social welfare state. Consequently hundreds of tho…

If they'd like to, sure; but they don't have to, and we shouldn't be relying on them to. > Democratic mandates are set by influencers. This is a cop out: the electorate is still responsible for the politicians it puts in power. Don't let people off the hook for supporting terrible policies.

The electorate doesn't vote on policy: it votes for people. People who are free to enact any policy they want while they are in office. The only consequence is not being elected a second time.

Re: What Happens After Prisoners Learn to Code?

#125

Post by klipt »

rayiner wrote: post #90
analog31 wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The opposite -- a presumption that people always vote in their own best interests -- is equally condescending because it's an expression that nobody can really believe. It's like everybody applauding and saying "good job" at the kindergarten music recital. In my view, evidence that people vote against their own interests is the massive industry that exists for the purpose of making that happen. The respectful middle…

Your logical error is assuming that it’s so obvious what “vot[ing] against [one’s] own interests” means. Maybe a stable free market government with a strong cultural and religious framework is in everyone’s interest, and the “massive industry” exists to convince people of that fact?

> religious framework

The founders who wrote the First Amendment clearly disagreed with that.

Re: What Happens After Prisoners Learn to Code?

#126

Post by barrkel »

TulliusCicero wrote: post #2

> We need to applaud companies like Slack, but know that the nitty-gritty of human services—housing, health care, social support—which lots of nonprofits and public institutions are working on, the private sector has largely turned away from.” I mean, yeah? Those things sound like they’re precisely the kind of stuff that’s the domain of non-profits and the government. Why would we expect Slack or other tech companies…

Long term vs short term incentives.

It's in companies' interests to have a healthy economy with employed workers, with families bringing up the next generation, etc. But that's a very long term perspective relative to the stock market, which would much rather see lower taxes and higher work force participation for the next few quarters.

People voting for public policies are only a little bit better; old people vote for their benefits, middle age people vote against taxes, and young people vote for redistribution when they're aware enough to turn up.

Re: What Happens After Prisoners Learn to Code?

#127

Post by goatinaboat »

jashmatthews wrote: post #56
jtbayly wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> convince people to either not vote - or to vote against their personal best interests. I’ve seen this on HN several times, and it always cracks me up. The condescension isn't dripping. It’s running in torrents. You think the reason they won’t vote the way you want is because they don’t know what’s good for themselves. You might want to consider an alternate: they don’t want someone like you deciding what’s good for…

If you look at the 1997 Labour manifesto, which led to the UK doubling GDP from 97 to and 2007 and the 2019 Labour manifesto they’re very similar. If you ask people if Labour was good for the economy and would be good for the economy, you’ll largely get a negative response. Unfortunately it’s easy for people’s opinions to be shaped with zero basis in fact and when this happens it’s easy for them to vote against their…

If you look at the 1997 Labour manifesto, which led to the UK doubling GDP from 97 to and 2007 and the 2019 Labour manifesto they’re very similar

The bits about nationalising everything were certainly very different so I don’t think this claim holds up to scrutiny.

I also find it interesting that you stop at 2007. What happened in 2008 that might call into doubt Labour’s management of the economy?

Re: What Happens After Prisoners Learn to Code?

#128

Post by GordonS »

jstewartmobile wrote: post #81

How would, " What happens after prisoners become accountants / lawyers / bankers... " sound? To me, it says that trust in our profession is interchangeable with that of trained felons. I'd rather not have technically proficient felons near passwords, credit card #s, and other personal information. Edit: I hate to sound like a Calvinist here, but you have to ask yourself how much a change in behavior is due to "rehabi…

> I'd rather not have technically proficient felons near passwords, credit card #s, and other personal information

Isn't a felon's debt to society meant to be repaid after their sentence ends?

I'd much rather that people leave prison ready to be useful and/or productive members of society.

Re: What Happens After Prisoners Learn to Code?

#129

Post by jbay808 »

Braggadocious wrote: post #119
TulliusCicero wrote: post #2

> We need to applaud companies like Slack, but know that the nitty-gritty of human services—housing, health care, social support—which lots of nonprofits and public institutions are working on, the private sector has largely turned away from.” I mean, yeah? Those things sound like they’re precisely the kind of stuff that’s the domain of non-profits and the government. Why would we expect Slack or other tech companies…

You're effectively describing trickle-down economics. "Help out rich people so they pay more taxes which will trickle down to poor people" That's not a real thing. The economy is trickle-up. Income inequality is widening. San francisco has the worst income inequality of any city in a developed country: top 1% earn 44x more than bottom 99%. The number of home owners has actually decreased in the last ten years. Cost o…

I don't think that is the OP's point at all. They aren't saying the tax rate should be low, they're saying that the social safety net should be handled by the government and charities rather than for-profit businesses.

Re: What Happens After Prisoners Learn to Code?

#130

Post by danans »

jtbayly wrote: post #13
DaiPlusPlus wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Government is to govern. Government in most countries is driven by democratic mandates. Democratic mandates are set by influencers. The US’ key influencers are largely regressive and dishonest - and convince people to either not vote - or to vote against their personal best interests[1]. The US government does not currently have a democratic mandate to operate as the social welfare state. Consequently hundreds of tho…

> convince people to either not vote - or to vote against their personal best interests. I’ve seen this on HN several times, and it always cracks me up. The condescension isn't dripping. It’s running in torrents. You think the reason they won’t vote the way you want is because they don’t know what’s good for themselves. You might want to consider an alternate: they don’t want someone like you deciding what’s good for…

There's another reason people appear to vote against their best interests: the opportunity to hurt those they dislike or resent.

That motivation can be especially strong when the party that you thought represented your economic interests turned out not to do that as much as you'd have liked.

Post reply on HN