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What Happens After Prisoners Learn to Code?

theatlantic.com

111–120 of 244 posts

Re: What Happens After Prisoners Learn to Code?

#111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The American political left would gain immensely and lose exactly nothing by being less condescending. The first line of argument they should abandon is telling people they are voting against their own interests. It’s remarkably insulting, and arrogantly presupposes you know know better what another person’s interests are.

Do the American political right not constantly say the same thing? But face less scrutiny when they say it.

The American political right faces constant scrutiny from left learning news in America. The simple fact is that somehow labor unions seem to be turning against the political left, which means someone messed up big time.

Re: What Happens After Prisoners Learn to Code?

#112
I love how inmates get a better education and more support from tech companies than the adults who live in the bay area. The bay area has the worst income inequality of anywhere in any developed country. Bootcamps are a scam and cost tens of thousands of dollars and yet inmates, people convicted of severe crimes, are treated to free education. From a business standpoint this makes more sense because inmates have no bargaining power and can flood the coding labor pool, thus lowering wages for businesses. How is a boot camp graduate supposed to compete with modern-day slaves?

By the way the W.K. Kellogg Foundation is a eugenics group. What are they doing here? This program is so fishy.

Re: What Happens After Prisoners Learn to Code?

#113
post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Side point. Just because a government is in power doesn't mean they are responsible for the economy doing well. Often the previous policies take time to take hold more so global trends are driving this. What happened after 2007 the housing crisis.. in part made by government policy spanning decades in part because of foreign influence through global markets.

That’s true but widespread economic opinion is that the austerity policies have resulted in lower growth. Cuts started before 2010 and the effects are visible now. The IMF was critical of the policy as early as 2013 but the conservative government pushed on for idealogical reasons. There’s little reason to continue self harm.

I thought we’ve established that we’re all Keynesians now.

Re: What Happens After Prisoners Learn to Code?

#114

How would, " What happens after prisoners become accountants / lawyers / bankers... " sound? To me, it says that trust in our profession is interchangeable with that of trained felons. I'd rather not have technically proficient felons near passwords, credit card #s, and other personal information. Edit: I hate to sound like a Calvinist here, but you have to ask yourself how much a change in behavior is due to "rehabi…

> How would, "What happens after prisoners become accountants / lawyers / bankers..." sound? https://www.nytimes.com/2018/01/19/business/are-felons-fit-t...

That is a nice anecdote. Is it good policy?

Re: What Happens After Prisoners Learn to Code?

#115
post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The opposite -- a presumption that people always vote in their own best interests -- is equally condescending because it's an expression that nobody can really believe. It's like everybody applauding and saying "good job" at the kindergarten music recital. In my view, evidence that people vote against their own interests is the massive industry that exists for the purpose of making that happen. The respectful middle…

Your logical error is assuming that it’s so obvious what “vot[ing] against [one’s] own interests” means. Maybe a stable free market government with a strong cultural and religious framework is in everyone’s interest, and the “massive industry” exists to convince people of that fact?

This was like the archetype of a partisan argument. You two managed to go through why the sides don't like each other's worldview or the way it's expressed, and then stopped the second it came to discussing any real world issues. And I mean both of you as well, you could've given examples and data about why your system might be in anyone's interest but you didn't and it would've been the perfect time for him to reply with examples and data in favour of his, and neither of you even tried, it just stopped.

It's fucking amazing.

Re: What Happens After Prisoners Learn to Code?

#116
post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Side point. Just because a government is in power doesn't mean they are responsible for the economy doing well. Often the previous policies take time to take hold more so global trends are driving this. What happened after 2007 the housing crisis.. in part made by government policy spanning decades in part because of foreign influence through global markets.

That’s true but widespread economic opinion is that the austerity policies have resulted in lower growth. Cuts started before 2010 and the effects are visible now. The IMF was critical of the policy as early as 2013 but the conservative government pushed on for idealogical reasons. There’s little reason to continue self harm.

Unless the harm isn't harm but is rather the fabled pain without which comes no gain.

Re: What Happens After Prisoners Learn to Code?

#117
post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> convince people to either not vote - or to vote against their personal best interests. I’ve seen this on HN several times, and it always cracks me up. The condescension isn't dripping. It’s running in torrents. You think the reason they won’t vote the way you want is because they don’t know what’s good for themselves. You might want to consider an alternate: they don’t want someone like you deciding what’s good for…

The American political left would gain immensely and lose exactly nothing by being less condescending. The first line of argument they should abandon is telling people they are voting against their own interests. It’s remarkably insulting, and arrogantly presupposes you know know better what another person’s interests are.

Media in the echo-chambers emphasize the bogeyman/straw man arguments of the other side, ensuring that right-leaning audiences only sees the video and soundbites that reinforce the effete, ivory tower, condescending, detached-from-reality stereotypes. Similarly, the left-leaning population only sees the racism, intolerance, education-bashing, and fact denial. Neither represents more than 5% of the population, but each political leaning believes the stereotype represents 50% of the other side.

Re: What Happens After Prisoners Learn to Code?

#119

> We need to applaud companies like Slack, but know that the nitty-gritty of human services—housing, health care, social support—which lots of nonprofits and public institutions are working on, the private sector has largely turned away from.” I mean, yeah? Those things sound like they’re precisely the kind of stuff that’s the domain of non-profits and the government. Why would we expect Slack or other tech companies…

You're effectively describing trickle-down economics. "Help out rich people so they pay more taxes which will trickle down to poor people" That's not a real thing. The economy is trickle-up. Income inequality is widening. San francisco has the worst income inequality of any city in a developed country: top 1% earn 44x more than bottom 99%. The number of home owners has actually decreased in the last ten years. Cost of living have increased in line with what the top 1% are making. The recession hurt low income far more than the top and yet we subsidized the shit out of the top by giving tax breaks to tech and wallstreet. We basically created a drag race between a ferrari and a civic, gave the ferrari a head start, and then sat around waiting for the civic to catch up.

Re: What Happens After Prisoners Learn to Code?

#120

> We need to applaud companies like Slack, but know that the nitty-gritty of human services—housing, health care, social support—which lots of nonprofits and public institutions are working on, the private sector has largely turned away from.” I mean, yeah? Those things sound like they’re precisely the kind of stuff that’s the domain of non-profits and the government. Why would we expect Slack or other tech companies…

> blaming Slack and co. is silly. It’s not their job, and it shouldn’t be: you don’t want the institutions with profit motive to be the ones handling charitable works.

I’d agree with what you said because the reason you gave seems strong & compelling to me; the idea that profit motive might corrupt charity if in charge.

On the other hand, I dislike the idea that only government should “handle” social responsibility. (I think what we’re talking about is responsibility, not charity.) And in fact, today there are laws requiring social responsibility of the private sector, so in a very real sense it actually is their job.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corporate_social_responsibil...

The kind of thinking that separates the people & companies making money from helping our social outcasts, or just giving back to society in general, is exactly the kind of thinking that leads to having more social outcasts and growing income inequality. When rich people argue they should have no responsibility to pay taxes into social programs, what we end up with is more people who need social programs. Why shouldn’t it be everyone’s job to handle social improvement, including all the companies profiting from the environment that makes their profits possible?

> it’s the government that sets the tax rate and decides where revenue goes, not the private sector.

While that might be technically accurate, it seems misleading to frame it this way. The private sector has such massive influence on tax policy, it doesn’t even make sense to suggest the government does it and the private sector doesn’t. Lots of laws are effectively written by and for private companies, enough so that we have a serious problem with it and a name for it. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Regulatory_capture

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