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Canada still wants to "discipline the use of the Internet"

arstechnica.com

21–27 of 27 posts

Re: Canada still wants to "discipline the use of the Internet"

#22
post #20

This simply isn't as one sided as many seem to think. See, for example http://eaves.ca/2011/02/03/why-the-crtc-was-right-on-user-ba... ("Why the CRTC was right on Usage-Based Billing")

> If you make it so that fixed bills are the only way to bill customers then what incentives do internet providers have to improve capacity?

To grab customers from the competition of course?

Consumers will move from congested ISPs to unccongested ones, this provides incentive for all ISPs to be as uncongested as possible if they want to keep their customers and revenues.

Of course, this presumes there's actual competition between ISPs and that consumers can choose freely, which is why this inherently stupid discussion is only present in parts of the US and Canada.

Re: Canada still wants to "discipline the use of the Internet"

#23

Unmetered costs more. I don't know about Canada or US, but in Russia it's certain that your ISP pays for their uplink channels several times more than you would for the same bandwidth. Partially, that's because there are completely different SLAs, but that's also because a good share of users are consuming moderately (like web browsing) with only accidental high-traffic spikes. If every customer online will try to ge…

Counterpoint: Free.fr in France. While the incumbent telecoms were charging out the nose, Free.fr charges a moderate price for unlimited access and all sorts of awesome features. Clearly it's working for them.

Canadian telecoms are some of the most profitable companies in the country. The "no incentive to invest" has been because they can charge whatever they want for their service, milking the aging infrastructure they "own" that taxpayers heavily subsidized.

Why invest early and often if you can just crank up your rates when things eventually break down?

Re: Canada still wants to "discipline the use of the Internet"

#24
post #20

This simply isn't as one sided as many seem to think. See, for example http://eaves.ca/2011/02/03/why-the-crtc-was-right-on-user-ba... ("Why the CRTC was right on Usage-Based Billing")

I have a lot of respect for David Eaves, but in this particular case it looks to me like he doesn't understand the nuances of the argument. He's simply equating internet to electricity as if they were really similar things.

What he utterly fails to account for is the fact that the costs to provide a certain level of bandwidth have been dropping dramatically. You could simply be making regular, equal investments every year and that would be enough to see bandwidth rise in line with consumption. Yes, a 50% year-over-year increase in consumption is matched be a 50-60% year-over-year cost decrease.

Furthermore, Bell (for example) has little incentive to upgrade early and often if they can charge whatever they want. They can simply milk their creaky infrastructure until it breaks down (infrastructure that was heavily subsidized by the taxpayer), and then simply increase their rates to cover the costs of investments they should have made a long time ago if they didn't act according to perverse incentives.

From another angle, fast, ubiquitous, unlimited (for all intents-and-purposes) internet should be a policy objective for our government. Countries that have made heavy investment in internet infrastructure, like South Korea and Japan, are reaping the rewards. This will only become more important.

Canada also has THE most expensive internet access among OECD countries. Period. Full stop.

Finally, this ruling was about imposing UBB on 3rd-party providers, not about UBB in general. Teksavvy already had caps at 200GB and a more expensive plan that offered unlimited access, and as many people don't seem to understand, they're not using Bell's backhaul. They operate their own - they just need to access the last mile infrastructure because it's a bloody duopoly.

I could go on and on and on, but suffice it to say that David is just plain wrong here. It IS as one-sided as we think.

Re: Canada still wants to "discipline the use of the Internet"

#25
UBB would make a lot more sense if the rates reflected actual costs rather than being based on what Bell charged the customer.

For instance, if Bell charged the ISP's $7 for renting that "last mile" + 5 cents for each gigabyte, charging the same for 1st and the 500th gigabyte, it'd be a lot harder to argue against UBB. But when they charge $2 per gigabyte but then allow you to pay $5 for 40 gigabytes a block, but only a maximum of 3 blocks, it's obvious to everybody that those prices are bogus and pure gravy.

Re: Canada still wants to "discipline the use of the Internet"

#26
post #21

Could someone explain to me what this is all about? Do the Canadian government want to prevent its citizens from using the Internet, and why?

Actually every party in the government that was actually elected is against it.

The only people that want this are Bell and the CRTC whose job it is to regulate Bell but whose members essentially rotate in and out of the CRTC and the companies they regulate. It's corrupt to the core.

Re: Canada still wants to "discipline the use of the Internet"

#27
post #8

I couldn't believe the gall behind the claim that the Internet is as limited a resource as electricity. The whole article seems ludicrous. "Discipline" internet usage? As if it's inherently bad or something?

Well, obviously everyone can't download at full speed at once and expect any kind of performance from the shared network, so some kind of sharing arrangement is needed. The usual method is to price the scarce resource somehow. The spectre of usage-based billing was already motivating third-party ISPs to investigate building their own routing infrastructure. Seems like the market will sort it out, no?

I believe the majority of the problem exists in "the last mile", or three or five.

Eventually, the last stretch will get (yet) fatter. In the meantime, I've not seen discussion of possible interim workarounds. Such as e.g. Netflix enabling, on devices having sufficient storage, time-shifted, queued downloading. For example, during the work/school day, when residential usage is low, they could pump down the next film or three in your queue.

Similar to electrical power generation, efficiencies are gained by leveling demand.

Perhaps we're too impulsive in our choices. Also, it would place entire (DRM-ed?) movies at once onto local media -- possibly a concern. But it seems to me to be one approach, if "last mile" really is a problem and the different parties could actually cooperate instead of simply hoarding the pie.

Side benefit: No congestion interruptions and artifacts.

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