Here is a radical approach to software development. Paying for it's development and maintenance. How does that sound as a disruptor? Pay for pipenv's continued development, and for other software you use and depend on.
If this project is dead, just tell us
211–220 of 325 posts
Re: If this project is dead, just tell us
#212Earlier quoted context omitted.
Look, if you can’t trust the endorsement of the organization that otherwise develops and maintains all of Python’s official packaging tools, who are you supposed to trust? Guido and only Guido? > The thing that made it “official” was a short tutorial [1] on packaging.python.org, which is the PyPA’s packaging user guide. Also of note is the Python.org domain used. It makes it sound as if Pipenv was endorsed by the Pyt…
True. This same tutorial cites pip-tools, hatch, poetry. Does that mean that they “endorse” these tools as well?
> This same tutorial cites pip-tools, hatch, poetry. Does that mean that they “endorse” these tools as well?
Those tools are relegated to a small section at the end, whereas the main body of the text says "Pipenv is recommended for collaborative projects..."
I'd say that counts as a specific endorsement of Pipenv. I guess it's an endorsement by the "Python Packaging Authority" rather than "Python Core" but it's pretty hard for someone at the tutorial-reading level to perceive the difference.
Re: If this project is dead, just tell us
#213Earlier quoted context omitted.
True. This same tutorial cites pip-tools, hatch, poetry. Does that mean that they “endorse” these tools as well?
However, over here [0] I see pipenv, but not those: > Use Pipenv to manage library dependencies when developing Python applications. See Managing Application Dependencies for more details on using pipenv. > Consider other tools such as pip when pipenv does not meet your use case. That recommendation is absolutely unambiguous. [0] https://packaging.python.org/guides/tool-recommendations/
Right, I stand corrected.
Re: If this project is dead, just tell us
#214It does seem dead. The dead don’t speak. And no one is replying to this question.
The issue was posted 13 hours before your comment. I think it's reasonable to wait at least a day for somebody to respond before pronouncing them dead.
Re: If this project is dead, just tell us
#215Earlier quoted context omitted.
The 1.0 release is a must for a working poetry environment. The people handling it are friendly and communicate over github and discord. However, it's not all roses. - VSCode supports poetry as a second class citizen - Documentation is there, but only in github issues - There is no migration path from pip and pipenv to poetry - I can't do releases via CI because of a poetry bug.
There is also a bug that is keeping me from switching, and also the handling of that bug has not been great, otherwise I would do so in a heartbeat.
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Re: If this project is dead, just tell us
#216An issue that was opened 16h ago, now on HN? If I was in the maintainer's position I'd not respond now just so I don't create a precedent. This looks like bullying.
Re: If this project is dead, just tell us
#217Earlier quoted context omitted.
> Python packaging in general is such a messy ecosystem Not just messy. It’s probably worst in class. I at least can’t come up with a single worse package-management story which I do know of. Edit: I’m talking about platforms with actual package-management which sucks, not platforms with the absence of package-management all together.
As someone who's been in software development for two the better part of two decades now I would say that's far beyond the truth. Yes it's not great right now and it's not completely clear if I should recommend a new user pip+venv, pipenv, pyenv, poetry or conda and that's a big problem, Python was actually quite early to handle dependencies and packaging in a standardized and structured way. I remember that most of…
I mainly use virtualenv and would recommend that to people until they have this problem trying to use matplotlib on osx: https://matplotlib.org/3.1.0/faq/osx_framework.html
osx includes a "non-framework" build of python making it hard to use matplotlib
Actually just now finding out about "venv" in the standard library introduced in python 3.3
Re: If this project is dead, just tell us
#218Earlier quoted context omitted.
The 1.0 release is a must for a working poetry environment. The people handling it are friendly and communicate over github and discord. However, it's not all roses. - VSCode supports poetry as a second class citizen - Documentation is there, but only in github issues - There is no migration path from pip and pipenv to poetry - I can't do releases via CI because of a poetry bug.
DepHell claims to be able to convert to and from pip, pipenv and poetry, so perhaps that could be used for migrating? https://dephell.org/docs/cmd-deps-convert.html
Ah hell, I wish I had known about this tool before migrating.
Thank you so much for pointing it out. I've added it to this issue.
Re: If this project is dead, just tell us
#219Earlier quoted context omitted.
Determining if a project is alive or dead really is a problem. And this problem will grow from year to year. There are so many small and medium sized projects on Github, where you have no idea if they are maintained or not. Sometimes there are projects which are alive and kicking with multiple pull requests, maintainers promising changes or a major release and suddenly nothing. Sometimes smaller projects see no chang…
You said it yourself, this is a very hard problem. There are Java packages that haven't seen a commit in years and are still perfect for a task. There are npm packages that are 2 months old and terribly outdated and unmaintained. My personal favorite metric is "time to maintainer response": how long does it take for a maintainer to respond to issues or pull requests. Not necessarily to resolve them, but triage issues…
> There are Java packages that haven't seen a commit in years and are still perfect for a task.
My favorite is Scriptella (http://scriptella.org/download.html) which recently just got its first update in around 7 years.
For what it does, it just worked, and for many uses cases, updates were never an issue.
Re: If this project is dead, just tell us
#220Earlier quoted context omitted.
> pipenv allows you to create, manage virtual environments(using venv) apart from managing requirements file(Pipfile) and an npm like locking mechanism, dependency graphs, dev dependencies and more. Why on earth would anyone need all this to manage packages for their projects? Are there any other programming languages whose package-management comes close to this level of intricacy and complexity? “This project needs…
> > pipenv allows you to create, manage virtual environments(using venv) apart from managing requirements file(Pipfile) and an npm like locking mechanism, dependency graphs, dev dependencies and more. > Why on earth would anyone need all this to manage packages for their projects? > Are there any other programming languages whose package-management comes close to this level of intricacy and complexity? > “This projec…
> I would hardly call a dev's machine a "self-contained environment"
But a software project is.
Only that software project needs those packages.