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Re: If this project is dead, just tell us

#201

Post by chaosfox »

Noe2097 wrote: post #72
ScoutOrgo wrote: post #38

Serious question, what does pipenv (and poetry) have over conda?

Conda works with a different, parallel ecosystem, whose main source of packages is managed by a single company (Anaconda Inc). That company validates, rebuilds, and possibly silently patches code, to provide their own packages. pipenv brings simpler workflow to pip. pip leverages packages which are published by their authors onto pypi, which is managed by the Python Foundation.

> whose main source of packages is managed by a single company

thats not true today, conda-forge is a community led effort that have open source recipes of the packages built by anaconda inc and many more others contributed by the community. I run conda with conda-forge packages only and it works great.

https://conda-forge.org/

Re: If this project is dead, just tell us

#202

Post by rejschaap »

levosmetalo wrote: post #161
casion wrote: post #18

669 commits in the last year... and asking if the project is dead? I'm a bit confused here. Maybe the project is mismanaged, or there's some upstream issue with package distro, but it seems to be far from dead.

Those 669 commits without a single release are pretty useless to the normal users. What would be the difference between 0 commits without a release and 669 commits without a release?

The 0 commit project is dead or finished.

The 669 commit project is clearly not finished, but also not really dead, yet.

Re: If this project is dead, just tell us

#203

Post by infecto »

I was pretty badly turned off by Kenneth Reitz and the way he handled conflict with Pipenv. I disliked how instead of listening to feed back or being constructive he just gave off a kind of fuck you attitude. There were real and critical issues with pipenv that he would not budge on and it truly felt like he was in the minority. I know, its his project he can do what he wants but in the context it did not make sense. I especially disliked it due to how he sold Pipenv as being officially endorsed by Python (which its not and has never been) but it did trick me for a short time. Finding out it was never official endorsed is what made me never want to support any of his projects again.

Posting this here again in case anyone missed it. https://vorpus.org/blog/why-im-not-collaborating-with-kennet...

Re: If this project is dead, just tell us

#204

Post by sosodev »

josteink wrote: post #24
mikkelam wrote: post #8

Pipenv has spawned so much controvery.. One big shitfest. Python packaging in general is such a messy ecosystem

> Python packaging in general is such a messy ecosystem Not just messy. It’s probably worst in class. I at least can’t come up with a single worse package-management story which I do know of. Edit: I’m talking about platforms with actual package-management which sucks, not platforms with the absence of package-management all together.

I might be alone but I hate dealing with Java’s package management system.

Re: If this project is dead, just tell us

#205

Post by jarnagin »

noname120 wrote: post #154
coleifer wrote: post #109

I see a lot of comments about "hey it's open-source, just fork". The reason people feel upset is because this project was shilled hard when it was released. The python packaging team was officially recommending it, stuff like that. There was some backlash because of legitimate usability concerns with the software, and what was perceived as the tacit blessing of a project solely due to the maintainer's having written…

> The python packaging team was officially recommending it NO! This is a common misconception[1]. Edit: Correction it's not endorsed by the core Python team but it's recommended by the Python Packaging Authority in various places. See replies below for more info. [1] https://chriswarrick.com/blog/2018/07/17/pipenv-promises-a-l...

It’s officially recommended on packaging.python.org [1]. If that’s not enough to count as an official endorsement, what is?

[1] https://packaging.python.org/guides/tool-recommendations/

Re: If this project is dead, just tell us

#206

Post by kwooding »

CivBase wrote: post #182

I finally tried out pipenv a few months ago but I ran into a huge showstopper: pipenv does not allow you to target multiple versions of Python. I've seen sever pull requests requesting this feature but the author has officially stated that he does not plan to support it. My company still primarily uses Python 2, but I've been trying to push them towards 3. I need to support both in the mean time and that simply isn't…

This is the main reason I use conda to manage python virtual envs. It easily supports multiple python versions.

Re: If this project is dead, just tell us

#207

Post by kwooding »

Finnucane wrote: post #118
Noe2097 wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Conda works with a different, parallel ecosystem, whose main source of packages is managed by a single company (Anaconda Inc). That company validates, rebuilds, and possibly silently patches code, to provide their own packages. pipenv brings simpler workflow to pip. pip leverages packages which are published by their authors onto pypi, which is managed by the Python Foundation.

My limited experience is that Conda is great if you are all-in on the parallel ecosystem, but it doesn't play well with others. Or at least, it didn't for me.

This may have been true at the beginning, but nowadays I use “pip install” extensively in conda-created environments. Are there particular packages that you have trouble with?

Re: If this project is dead, just tell us

#208

Post by shakna »

noname120 wrote: post #183
jplayer01 wrote: post #160

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Look, if you can’t trust the endorsement of the organization that otherwise develops and maintains all of Python’s official packaging tools, who are you supposed to trust? Guido and only Guido? > The thing that made it “official” was a short tutorial [1] on packaging.python.org, which is the PyPA’s packaging user guide. Also of note is the Python.org domain used. It makes it sound as if Pipenv was endorsed by the Pyt…

True. This same tutorial cites pip-tools, hatch, poetry. Does that mean that they “endorse” these tools as well?

However, over here [0] I see pipenv, but not those:

> Use Pipenv to manage library dependencies when developing Python applications. See Managing Application Dependencies for more details on using pipenv.

> Consider other tools such as pip when pipenv does not meet your use case.

That recommendation is absolutely unambiguous.

[0] https://packaging.python.org/guides/tool-recommendations/

Re: If this project is dead, just tell us

#209

Post by shakna »

infecto wrote: post #203

I was pretty badly turned off by Kenneth Reitz and the way he handled conflict with Pipenv. I disliked how instead of listening to feed back or being constructive he just gave off a kind of fuck you attitude. There were real and critical issues with pipenv that he would not budge on and it truly felt like he was in the minority. I know, its his project he can do what he wants but in the context it did not make sense.…

> Use Pipenv to manage library dependencies when developing Python applications. See Managing Application Dependencies for more details on using pipenv.

> Consider other tools such as pip when pipenv does not meet your use case.

Is this [0] not an official endorsement? It certainly seems as much.

[0] https://packaging.python.org/guides/tool-recommendations/

Re: If this project is dead, just tell us

#210

Post by strunz »

xenator wrote: post #105

Pipenv is very controversial project who lost its reputation. Many times I have issues that was making my everyday life very uncomfortable. And of course I saw issues on GitHub with other people who also have the same problems. And then in the middle of the very constructive conversation somebody from the maintainers team or initial creator of the project jumping to the thread and very aggressively close it or saying…

Can you link to one of these times a maintainer said something like that?
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