If this project is dead, just tell us • Hacker News Board

Re: If this project is dead, just tell us

#41

Post by bnjmn » Fri, Dec 13, 2019, 2:13 PM UTC

Speaking as a maintainer of large open-source projects, I know what it's like to get stuck working on a release branch (which is sometimes just the `master` branch) that takes forever to become an official release. I'm not sure if that's the story here, but there have been a lot of commits since the last release, so maybe?

In any case, I strongly recommend publishing alpha/beta releases along the way, without the ceremony of an official release, so that folks can give feedback during the long months that fly by when you don't have nearly enough time to spend on the project.

Respect the needs of your conservative users by not publishing official releases until they're really ready, but trust your more engaged users to use whatever you have right now, and let you know what's working/broken, without judgment.

Re: If this project is dead, just tell us

#42

Post by skavi » Fri, Dec 13, 2019, 2:14 PM UTC

fullstop wrote: post #4

kresten wrote: post #2

It does seem dead. The dead don’t speak. And no one is replying to this question.

> And no one is replying to this question. I'm a ghoOoOoOst!

The fading from the downvotes actually makes this comment amusing now. More so than before at least.

Re: If this project is dead, just tell us

#43

Post by josteink » Fri, Dec 13, 2019, 2:14 PM UTC

sidmitra wrote: post #10

css wrote: post #3

Why would someone choose to use a third party library when the first party solution[0] is more than adequate in the first place? [0] https://docs.python.org/3/library/venv.html

They don't do the same thing. pipenv allows you to create, manage virtual environments(using venv) apart from managing requirements file(Pipfile) and an npm like locking mechanism, dependency graphs, dev dependencies and more. I prefer poetry though, since the consensus seems to be coming together on pyproject.toml rather than individual files like Pipfile. A lot of tools have already started supporting the toml file…

> pipenv allows you to create, manage virtual environments(using venv) apart from managing requirements file(Pipfile) and an npm like locking mechanism, dependency graphs, dev dependencies and more.

Why on earth would anyone need all this to manage packages for their projects?

Are there any other programming languages whose package-management comes close to this level of intricacy and complexity?

“This project needs package X”

I mean how hard can that be to get right in a self-contained environment?

This whole story is just madness coupled deep denial and Stockholm-syndrome.

Re: If this project is dead, just tell us

#44

Post by MS90 » Fri, Dec 13, 2019, 2:14 PM UTC

emddudley wrote: post #26

briandilley wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Biome. We no longer say ecosystem, we say "Biome".

OK so we're sidetracking here, but I have never seen anyone use "biome". Why change from "ecosystem"?

Curious as well. The thesaurus lists them as synonyms, though it appears there are some minor differences in meaning when used as scientific terms.

Re: If this project is dead, just tell us

#45

Post by dedsm » Fri, Dec 13, 2019, 2:14 PM UTC

have_faith wrote: post #5

> I don't think you're bad people, but the least y'all can do is be honest I don't like this framing (sort of implies they aren't be honest) but regardless just switch if you're not happy with the release frequency and you have viable alternatives.

there are a couple of issues with "moving on", since the project is owned by pypa, it feels it should be the default for python projects, pipenv has a good idea, but in my opinion, a flawed implementation, and maybe all my issues are already resolved in those 600+ commits without release.

About the framing of the question, I think it's because of all the flame wars in the past when people criticized pipenv and maintainers took it a bit personal.

Re: If this project is dead, just tell us

#46

Post by sgt » Fri, Dec 13, 2019, 2:15 PM UTC

mfcl wrote: post #17

qatanah wrote: post #12

I think it applies to all open source projects.

What applies to all open source projects?

That if you don't regularly commit or if there's no PipenvCon in Las Vegas, it's considered dead.

Re: If this project is dead, just tell us

#47

Post by Redoubts » Fri, Dec 13, 2019, 2:15 PM UTC

blondin wrote: post #19

cityroasted wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

pipenv does more than just create a venv, although it is my favorite tool for that. The most important thing it does is freeze the dependency tree using Pipfile.lock

> it does is freeze the dependency tree using Pipfile.lock sorry but what does freezing the dependency tree mean?

probably recording exact dependency versions, based on a loose requirements.txt and when it was built.

You may want this because you have a library that you shouldn't be pinning to the third decimal on a sem-ver package, but that you don't want to hiccup in CI due to a dot-release.

Or maybe you think a loose file your tooling can read, and a hyper-specific file your builder should read, is a better interface for a project.

Re: If this project is dead, just tell us

#48

Post by theamk » Fri, Dec 13, 2019, 2:16 PM UTC

josteink wrote: post #24

mikkelam wrote: post #8

Pipenv has spawned so much controvery.. One big shitfest. Python packaging in general is such a messy ecosystem

> Python packaging in general is such a messy ecosystem Not just messy. It’s probably worst in class. I at least can’t come up with a single worse package-management story which I do know of. Edit: I’m talking about platforms with actual package-management which sucks, not platforms with the absence of package-management all together.

Cmake? (And especially Kitware Superbuild... try pinning packages there!)

Re: If this project is dead, just tell us

#49

Post by josteink » Fri, Dec 13, 2019, 2:17 PM UTC

Tajnymag wrote: post #32

josteink wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Python packaging in general is such a messy ecosystem Not just messy. It’s probably worst in class. I at least can’t come up with a single worse package-management story which I do know of. Edit: I’m talking about platforms with actual package-management which sucks, not platforms with the absence of package-management all together.

Well, C/C++ dependencies are also a hell to reliably setup on different platforms.

But C/C++ is messy because it doesn’t have a language/platform-provided package-management system, while python actually does.

So that’s apples to no oranges, I guess. And it still doesn’t leave python looking particularly good.

Re: If this project is dead, just tell us

#50

Post by xboxnolifes » Fri, Dec 13, 2019, 2:17 PM UTC

fiatjaf wrote: post #20

If there are no commits, maybe that means it is finished, stable, reliable? I would like more projects to be without commits and just work. I don't understand why there must always be new commits if everything already works.

But there are commits.