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America’s First Amphetamine Epidemic 1929–1971 (2008)

ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

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Re: America’s First Amphetamine Epidemic 1929–1971 (2008)

#11

Post by tsukurimashou »

ydb wrote: post #2

Most people would think the government is responsible for all these drug epidemics: the DEA jailing minorities on minor infractions or the CIA hustling cocaine between countries (look it up). But really the true culprit is just the youth, and always has been. Ever since the early 1900s traditional family values and social community/cohesion has been seriously on decline. Say what you will about Ted Kaczynski, but his…

Youth is not the problem, and I don't agree with the other comment saying that youth has it better than previous generations. People just see all the "good things" and how "easy" it is for young people to do things they weren't able to when they were young. But understand that the young people of today have to deal with all the stupid decisions of previous generations, they have to conform to society like never before, and there is so much pressure and uncertainty about so many things (climate, political non-sense), they are being bombarded with violent and sad information all the time. I can understand why young people go to drugs to find some piece in the middle of this mess.

I'm 29 and I'd gladly throw away some of the modern "progress" we made for more freedom, more privacy, and a society that doesn't flat out reject some type of people for their view, their ideas, or lifestyle which doesn't allign with our single minded society.

Re: America’s First Amphetamine Epidemic 1929–1971 (2008)

#13

Post by sneak »

etaioinshrdlu wrote: post #3
ydb wrote: post #2

Most people would think the government is responsible for all these drug epidemics: the DEA jailing minorities on minor infractions or the CIA hustling cocaine between countries (look it up). But really the true culprit is just the youth, and always has been. Ever since the early 1900s traditional family values and social community/cohesion has been seriously on decline. Say what you will about Ted Kaczynski, but his…

I don't really completely agree with this argument but I'd like to remind the HN community not to downvote simply because you disagree. I would argue that drug addiction is affecting older adults much more severely than youth. I can definitely agree that social cohesion in America has been somewhat awful for generations.

GP is making a bigoted argument with supporting data from a serial killer. If I were to downvote because I disagree with their argument, I would have to downvote twice.

Let’s stop discussing voting now, though. I agree with the mods here that it makes for very boring reading.

Re: America’s First Amphetamine Epidemic 1929–1971 (2008)

#14

Post by Clubber »

freddie_mercury wrote: post #10
etaioinshrdlu wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't really completely agree with this argument but I'd like to remind the HN community not to downvote simply because you disagree. I would argue that drug addiction is affecting older adults much more severely than youth. I can definitely agree that social cohesion in America has been somewhat awful for generations.

> I don't really completely agree with this argument but I'd like to remind the HN community not to downvote simply because you disagree. pg has explicitly said that downvotes on Hacker News can be used for disagreement. "Downvotes to express disagreement are part of the ethos of this site; it's a norm Paul Graham established almost a decade ago."

It's not a great idea and here's why: it's an almost sure way to create an echo chamber.

How? The point system is the gamification of the forums. It's designed to spur conversation while also an attempt at self moderation. When someone posts a controversial but trailblazing comment, like say "Scrum Agile doesn't work very well for their company and here's why," the barrage of downvotes from the orthodoxy makes that person lose points and disincentivizes them from making any more controversial posts (unless they just don't give a damn).

Ergo, the conversation gravitates towards whatever the herd thinks is best. It's rewarding conventional thinking and discouraging unorthodox thought, which is poison to any technological discussion. Technology and in fact progress itself was built on questioning and even destroying the conventional.

Re: America’s First Amphetamine Epidemic 1929–1971 (2008)

#15

Post by saiya-jin »

ydb wrote: post #2

Most people would think the government is responsible for all these drug epidemics: the DEA jailing minorities on minor infractions or the CIA hustling cocaine between countries (look it up). But really the true culprit is just the youth, and always has been. Ever since the early 1900s traditional family values and social community/cohesion has been seriously on decline. Say what you will about Ted Kaczynski, but his…

Things were not great some century ago, they were often beyond fucked and average joe's life meant nothing, nobody cared, nobody helped apart from close family, which was often not enough.

Young folks are generally pretty stupid and inexperienced (duh). I know damn well, was one of those. Due to peer pressure itching to get wasted, on anything available (luckily there wasn't much). Looking desperately for approvals and doing stupid shit for 15 seconds of fame, risking getting crippled for life or even dying. Generally clueless about life, what I want from it, which direction to go.

But it was OK, everybody was more or less on the same boat, so you didn't feel behind. We talk about east Europe here in 80s and 90s, there were basically no drugs apart from alcohol and nicotine and no organized crime. People had simpler ways to be miserable and waste life. These days, constant exposure to people better off than yourself leave a lot of room for desire. There is always somebody on Facebook having great time on vacation or having time of their life on other way.

This phase will pass. It is part of growing up, rebellion to previous generations, feeling that all and everybody is shit. Some might get stuck there and its usually not so nice story, but that's life. It ain't supposed to be a game on easy difficulty.

Re: America’s First Amphetamine Epidemic 1929–1971 (2008)

#16

Post by refurb »

It’s always interesting to me how illegal drugs wax and wane in popularity.

We like to blame opioid over-prescribing for the surge in opioid use, but there was also a heroin “epidemic” in the 1970’s that slowly petered out as cocaine became the focus in the 80’s.

Re: America’s First Amphetamine Epidemic 1929–1971 (2008)

#17

Post by HocusLocus »

What's next, "America's caffeine epidemic"?

Interspersed with all this pedantry is a smarmy judgement towards stimulants and COMPLETE LACK of context of the times, and a lack of any societal or species context that recognizes the BREATHTAKING ACHIEVEMENTS during said times of "Oh so bad bad we should be ashamed it's an epidemic!" There's an undercurrent here that is almost criminal.

The sin is not excess, certainly at 5mg a dose. The sin is not 'euphoria', which often turns out to be psych-speak for 'a simple will to live'. What people crave with caffeine and amphetamine is mental alertness. Caffeine delivers, speed delivers more. And with that people can do, have done, incredible things.

Aside from the specific physiological effects like chronically overbearing hearts that also plagues athletes, the worst mental effects of stimulants are often blamed directly on the drug -- not abusers' lack of discipline -- and result from a LACK OF or DISRUPTION OF sleep. Stimulants do NOT, in themselves, make you crazy.

Re: America’s First Amphetamine Epidemic 1929–1971 (2008)

#18

Post by refurb »

rayhendricks wrote: post #4
ydb wrote: post #2

Most people would think the government is responsible for all these drug epidemics: the DEA jailing minorities on minor infractions or the CIA hustling cocaine between countries (look it up). But really the true culprit is just the youth, and always has been. Ever since the early 1900s traditional family values and social community/cohesion has been seriously on decline. Say what you will about Ted Kaczynski, but his…

I would disagree that today’s youth are suffering because ‘reality sucks’. If anything the youth of today have it better than ever before. In 1950 [at least in the USA] a youth would not have had access to reliable information on possible career choices and outcomes apart from maybe a school counselor, now that information is available instantly on the internet. Likewise reality would have really sucked had the youth…

Human’s have a few characteristics that make them prone to seeing things in a distorted way.

The first is thinking they live in unique times - “it’s never been like this before”, when in fact every generation has existential threats.

The second is perspective and looking at the past with rose colored glasses. No, the 1970’s were actually a really depressing time to be living in the US and yes, the boomers had to live through it.

Re: America’s First Amphetamine Epidemic 1929–1971 (2008)

#19

Post by irscott »

HocusLocus wrote: post #17

What's next, "America's caffeine epidemic"? Interspersed with all this pedantry is a smarmy judgement towards stimulants and COMPLETE LACK of context of the times, and a lack of any societal or species context that recognizes the BREATHTAKING ACHIEVEMENTS during said times of "Oh so bad bad we should be ashamed it's an epidemic!" There's an undercurrent here that is almost criminal. The sin is not excess, certainly a…

I dated someone with a meth problem for five years and would disagree with you. Meth completely changes a person's personality.

I think all drugs should be legal and think humans have done amazing things with/on drugs. I've also seen this go horribly awry and witnessed some absolutely insane things from people on speed. There's a lot more to it than simply a lack of sleep.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stimulant_psychosis

Re: America’s First Amphetamine Epidemic 1929–1971 (2008)

#20

Post by sudosteph »

tsukurimashou wrote: post #11
ydb wrote: post #2

Most people would think the government is responsible for all these drug epidemics: the DEA jailing minorities on minor infractions or the CIA hustling cocaine between countries (look it up). But really the true culprit is just the youth, and always has been. Ever since the early 1900s traditional family values and social community/cohesion has been seriously on decline. Say what you will about Ted Kaczynski, but his…

Youth is not the problem, and I don't agree with the other comment saying that youth has it better than previous generations. People just see all the "good things" and how "easy" it is for young people to do things they weren't able to when they were young. But understand that the young people of today have to deal with all the stupid decisions of previous generations, they have to conform to society like never befor…

None of this is unique to our generation though. We may feel that it is because the 1900s seem impossibly far back, but our great-grandparents faced many of the same issues. Factories polluted like crazy, outright corruption in politics, newspapers filled with propaganda or outright libel, corporations owning entire towns and paying their workers with "company scrip" instead of cash to keep them perpetually indebted. Drugs and alcohol were rampant back then too.

One thing that actually has immensely since then though is that society is measurably more accepting of women, people of color, LGBT people. So while we don't have everything fixed yet, I like to remember that we do have real social progress, so it's possible

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