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If Logged into Facebook, Oculus VR Data Will Now Be Used for Ads

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Re: If Logged into Facebook, Oculus VR Data Will Now Be Used for Ads

#141

Post by colejohnson66 »

FussyZeus wrote: post #138
colejohnson66 wrote: post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Please don’t suggest people are astroturfing here. It’s against the site guidelines.

That may be true, but this is also the sole comment from this account, made to defend the ad policies of a company known to take veeeeeery large liberties with the data of it's userbase, both to enhance features and to sell ad targeting. Like if it's HN's policy to not call things astroturfing, fine, I'll accept that. But if it talks like a duck, walks like a duck, and posts in it's own defense for no apparent reason…

It doesn’t matter. One is still claiming astroturfing with nothing but circumstantial evidence. If you have actual evidence that this account is a troll, post it.

Regarding the “new account” argument: HN encourages throwaways. Maybe OP didn’t want to lose karma on their main account. Maybe they don’t want people knowing who he is? It doesn’t matter.

Re: If Logged into Facebook, Oculus VR Data Will Now Be Used for Ads

#143

Post by [deleted] »

adgineer wrote: post #48

FB ads engineer here. Every time I read these threads, I'm 1. Flattered by how sophisticated HN thinks our systems are (they're not. and we're not that smart. FB's A-team stopped working on ads a long time ago) 2. Entertained by how HN thinks ad targeting works (we don't want to know everything about YOU. we want to know basic info about all of our users.) Hypertargeting doesn't work. Targeting small audiences doesn'…

[deleted]

Re: If Logged into Facebook, Oculus VR Data Will Now Be Used for Ads

#144

Post by AaronFriel »

colejohnson66 wrote: post #137
troquerre wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Having spoken with people who have worked on the FB ads team, and having heard stories of how extensive FB's tracking is, this post seems disingenuous and personally I wouldn't be surprised if the account is sponsored by FB.

Please don’t suggest people are astroturfing here. It’s against the site guidelines.

This is a site guideline I fervently disagree with. Throwaways with no reputation to back them up should be treated as irrelevant - they don't face any social costs and indeed they accomplish their goal almost immediately and there is no mechanism, none whatsoever, to undo their damage.

The problem is the fundamental information disparity. The guidelines want us to treat anonymous astroturfers with the same deference we treat "a source familiar with the matter" as reported by a national news publication. There's a difference though: journalists ostensibly act as a filter and a guard against bad faith[1] use of on background or off the record conversations, and try to fact check or cross reference those statements. And journalists usually know who their sources are, and statements in error can result in that source no longer being valued or used.

Hacker News as a discussion site has none of that. We have no way to know if this person actually works at Facebook, actually conveys true information about Facebook, and if it turns out 6 months from now that they're an astroturfing troll or PR firm, the damage is already done. Disinformation online works so well because the initial comment, like this one, gets so much traction and it's unlikely any retraction - if it ever comes - reaches the same audience and causes a reversion of their prior beliefs.

I think it's very silly that the policies ensure the site is exceptionally vulnerable to disinformation campaigns, and too many people presume good faith in an age of anonymous online bad faith discourse.

[1] - let's not wade into the current dialectic, but this is the ostensible purpose of journalists knowing sources, but not divulging them

Re: If Logged into Facebook, Oculus VR Data Will Now Be Used for Ads

#145

Post by riversflow »

colejohnson66 wrote: post #86
cowpig wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Telling someone that what they do for a living makes the world a worse place is neither a personal insult nor hating. Social pressure is one of the principal ways we stop people from making self-interested decisions that are detrimental to the group.

It is an insult because you’re attacking them for what they do.

I don’t follow this logic, at all, and I’m honestly trying to understand it, even if I disagree.

How is attacking someone for what they do an insult?

Is there an ethical line?

If someone kills my family, certainly I am not insulting them for calling them a murder?

Re: If Logged into Facebook, Oculus VR Data Will Now Be Used for Ads

#146

Post by abacadaba »

ceejayoz wrote: post #73
Nextgrid wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your systems are sophisticated enough to make people believe their phones are listening to them in the background even when that's not the case. So even if you think they are primitive, a lot of people thinks they're more than sophisticated enough to be creepy.

Facebook's not helping this conspiracy theory with their "why did I see this ad?" dialog. I'll see a clearly hyper-targeted ad (for example, a psoriasis medication) and click that button and it'll say "they wanted to reach people in the United States between 18-65!" I know I was targeted by that ad. I know they're just showing me the most general bit of the targeting info that was used to put that ad in front of me.…

18-65 _would_ get them to a 5% hit rate and few false negatives

Re: If Logged into Facebook, Oculus VR Data Will Now Be Used for Ads

#147

Post by [deleted] »

colejohnson66 wrote: post #141
FussyZeus wrote: post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That may be true, but this is also the sole comment from this account, made to defend the ad policies of a company known to take veeeeeery large liberties with the data of it's userbase, both to enhance features and to sell ad targeting. Like if it's HN's policy to not call things astroturfing, fine, I'll accept that. But if it talks like a duck, walks like a duck, and posts in it's own defense for no apparent reason…

It doesn’t matter. One is still claiming astroturfing with nothing but circumstantial evidence. If you have actual evidence that this account is a troll, post it. Regarding the “new account” argument: HN encourages throwaways. Maybe OP didn’t want to lose karma on their main account. Maybe they don’t want people knowing who he is? It doesn’t matter.

[deleted]

Re: If Logged into Facebook, Oculus VR Data Will Now Be Used for Ads

#148

Post by pavel_lishin »

colejohnson66 wrote: post #141
FussyZeus wrote: post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That may be true, but this is also the sole comment from this account, made to defend the ad policies of a company known to take veeeeeery large liberties with the data of it's userbase, both to enhance features and to sell ad targeting. Like if it's HN's policy to not call things astroturfing, fine, I'll accept that. But if it talks like a duck, walks like a duck, and posts in it's own defense for no apparent reason…

It doesn’t matter. One is still claiming astroturfing with nothing but circumstantial evidence. If you have actual evidence that this account is a troll, post it. Regarding the “new account” argument: HN encourages throwaways. Maybe OP didn’t want to lose karma on their main account. Maybe they don’t want people knowing who he is? It doesn’t matter.

> One is still claiming astroturfing with nothing but circumstantial evidence.

And adgineer is claiming various things without any evidence at all.

Re: If Logged into Facebook, Oculus VR Data Will Now Be Used for Ads

#149

Post by grawprog »

adgineer wrote: post #48

FB ads engineer here. Every time I read these threads, I'm 1. Flattered by how sophisticated HN thinks our systems are (they're not. and we're not that smart. FB's A-team stopped working on ads a long time ago) 2. Entertained by how HN thinks ad targeting works (we don't want to know everything about YOU. we want to know basic info about all of our users.) Hypertargeting doesn't work. Targeting small audiences doesn'…

>Every time I read these threads, I'm 1. Flattered by how sophisticated HN thinks our systems are (they're not. and we're not that smart. FB's A-team stopped working on ads a long time ago)

Facebook's money comes primarily from it's ads.

https://www.investopedia.com/ask/answers/120114/how-does-fac...

What you're saying seems unlikely

>2. Entertained by how HN thinks ad targeting works (we don't want to know everything about YOU. we want to know basic info about all of our users.)

That's odd, then why does Facebook show me targetted ads based on my whatsapp and messenger conversations, youtube videos I watch, websites I browse, and places and people that are nearby me when I'm signed into Facebook on my phone

Not to be rude, but your post seems like a lot of bullshit just based on things i've seen Facebook do too many times to call it a coincidence.

>There's no meaningful business value to capturing biometrics or pictures of things in your home.

This is just straight bullshit. Those things are a direct window into finding out exactly what people buy, pretty much the solid gold, diamond encrusted wet dream of advertisers.

Re: If Logged into Facebook, Oculus VR Data Will Now Be Used for Ads

#150

Post by pavel_lishin »

patrickaljord wrote: post #38
CelestialTeapot wrote: post #35

Sure, after spending hundreds of dollars on a device, it only seems fair that the vendor exploit your personal information so that credit companies and anyone willing and able to buy the data can compile a dossier on you.

Facebook does not sell data.

Of course. Why sell it once, when you can keep renting it out forever?
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