The More Gender Equality, the Fewer Women in STEM (2018) • Hacker News Board

Re: The More Gender Equality, the Fewer Women in STEM (2018)

#171

Post by [deleted] » Thu, Dec 12, 2019, 8:14 PM UTC

harryh wrote: post #156

Reedx wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ask women and you'll find that most aren't interested in programming a computer all day. Which one could argue is a sane choice. If anything it's more sane. Stop trying to make them feel like something is wrong if they don't have this inclination. Males and females have different preferences on average, some as early as birth[1]. This is not a bad thing. For the ones that want to program all day, obviously they shoul…

Yes indeed. Women just don't want to work in one of the fastest growing and highest paying professions in America. They would much rather take lower paying jobs where you don't get free lunches and flexible dress codes at the office. I'm sure you're right.

[deleted]

Re: The More Gender Equality, the Fewer Women in STEM (2018)

#172

Post by jelliclesfarm » Thu, Dec 12, 2019, 8:14 PM UTC

blattimwind wrote: post #161

jelliclesfarm wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I disagree. I think pay scale disparities would also disappear if women had gender segregated work spaces. It would be a more supportive environment and less conflict. I suspect efficiency would also improve at work places. Throw a picnic or party or twice a week meeting or something for everyone to meet up...but having equal strength and equally compensated and mirror hierarchies of gender segregated work places wou…

> pay scale disparities would also disappear if women had gender segregated work spaces. Okay so here's the thing. Even with my typically-European limited view into the salaries of others at my work places, from what I've observed and from the statistics I have consulted the actual "pay scale disparities" between genders are tiny / non-existent if you compare the same jobs . There is a major difference in gender-spli…

Yes. It is a limited view.

Re: The More Gender Equality, the Fewer Women in STEM (2018)

#173

Post by mixmastamyk » Thu, Dec 12, 2019, 8:14 PM UTC

lgleason wrote: post #130

It all comes down to equality of opportunity vs equality of outcome. When there is equality of opportunity women choose different fields...often (but not always) because of different interests. Equality of outcome forces people to do things that they may not have an interest in. And that is before you get into interests vs natural talent and how that does or does not affect ones success in a field. On a fundamental l…

    s/irregardless/regardless

Re: The More Gender Equality, the Fewer Women in STEM (2018)

#174

Post by izzydata » Thu, Dec 12, 2019, 8:16 PM UTC

jayd16 wrote: post #164

lgleason wrote: post #130

It all comes down to equality of opportunity vs equality of outcome. When there is equality of opportunity women choose different fields...often (but not always) because of different interests. Equality of outcome forces people to do things that they may not have an interest in. And that is before you get into interests vs natural talent and how that does or does not affect ones success in a field. On a fundamental l…

Implicit bias also guides interests and choice. Many women I meet today simply did not consider the possibility of an engineering career, not that they were forced out of it. We look to outcome equality to gain some kind of insight into this.

It sounds like informing everyone that these options exist is part of creating a more equal opportunity. If two people didn't have the same information for available options then there wasn't an equal opportunity.

Re: The More Gender Equality, the Fewer Women in STEM (2018)

#175

Post by jelliclesfarm » Thu, Dec 12, 2019, 8:17 PM UTC

big_chungus wrote: post #160

jelliclesfarm wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Curious: have you asked female managers if they have any grievances? How do you know that they don’t face ‘these problems’?

Most good employees do this quarterly at performance reviews. Asking for feedback is absolutely the norm, and good managers will give it to an employee in an honest fashion. I've seen truculent employees of either gender giving a hard time to managers of either gender. I also don't think that the sort of screaming you described is ever an appropriate activity in which any manager should engage. If you don't like the…

I think yelling is a signal to attract attention in a fear inducing/adrenaline charged situation. I was a little fearful for my own safety and I figured that if I was loud enough, someone would hear me if things got out of control.

To clarify: this wasn’t an office environment. This person was a tradesman and we were working alone with a lot of heavy tools around.

Re: The More Gender Equality, the Fewer Women in STEM (2018)

#176

Post by UncleMeat » Thu, Dec 12, 2019, 8:19 PM UTC

lgleason wrote: post #130

It all comes down to equality of opportunity vs equality of outcome. When there is equality of opportunity women choose different fields...often (but not always) because of different interests. Equality of outcome forces people to do things that they may not have an interest in. And that is before you get into interests vs natural talent and how that does or does not affect ones success in a field. On a fundamental l…

> I'm sure this will be down voted, but it is what it is.

It's currently the number one post.

Re: The More Gender Equality, the Fewer Women in STEM (2018)

#177

Post by xwowsersx » Thu, Dec 12, 2019, 8:20 PM UTC

Jordan Peterson has highlighted this many times. As he puts it: in Scandinavia, which has gone further than any other country in promoting gender equality, as equality increases, the differences between the genders (interest, careers, other pursuits) INCREASE, not the other way around. This came as a big surprise to many.

Re: The More Gender Equality, the Fewer Women in STEM (2018)

#178

Post by edoo » Thu, Dec 12, 2019, 8:21 PM UTC

malcolmgreaves wrote: post #67

edoo wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm pretty sure it has been proven most genius women go into medicine and most genius men go into engineering. The genius part means you get to pick your path. Biological imperatives are at play.

There are absolutely zero "biological imperatives" here -- your take is some pretty low-effort, tired sexual discrimination.

https://www.apa.org/monitor/sep03/clues

https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/hope-relationships/2...

Males and females are biologically different. That is like 2nd grade stuff.

Re: The More Gender Equality, the Fewer Women in STEM (2018)

#179

Post by kaitai » Thu, Dec 12, 2019, 8:21 PM UTC

kaitai wrote: post #151

throwaway8548 wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> the kind of differences in performance and achievement that would be explained by psychological and physiological differences between men and women That's a bit of circular reasoning though. - Look how men and women behave differently! - But why do they behave differently? - Because they're different. - How do you know that? - Because they behave differently. It's not logically consistent and doesn't answer anythin…

Throwaway commenter, despite being downvoted, you're absolutely right! I'm a woman. I AM A WOMAN IN STEM. You know what makes my blood pressure rise? People in real life and in this thread who tell me that I'm naturally not suited to it, that I like people more than things. Go away! Shut the f(*& up! I want to sit here and deal with my code and not have people tell me that I either don't know what I like or I'm not a…

For humor's sake, I hope that the above comment clearly conveys how misanthropic people make me... haha.... pun not entirely unintended....

Re: The More Gender Equality, the Fewer Women in STEM (2018)

#180

Post by mixmastamyk » Thu, Dec 12, 2019, 8:22 PM UTC

jayd16 wrote: post #164

lgleason wrote: post #130

It all comes down to equality of opportunity vs equality of outcome. When there is equality of opportunity women choose different fields...often (but not always) because of different interests. Equality of outcome forces people to do things that they may not have an interest in. And that is before you get into interests vs natural talent and how that does or does not affect ones success in a field. On a fundamental l…

Implicit bias also guides interests and choice. Many women I meet today simply did not consider the possibility of an engineering career, not that they were forced out of it. We look to outcome equality to gain some kind of insight into this.

In school way back in olden times, most of the girls in my class would say "oh, I hate computers," when the subject was brought up. Odd, because I loved them.

I don't hear this anymore from the grown-up-on-iPad generation.