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We Only Hire the Trendiest (2016)

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Re: We Only Hire the Trendiest (2016)

#61

Post by dkhenry »

simion314 wrote: post #48
dkhenry wrote: post #26

For the specific example given I have turned down many individuals who sound like they have a similar background because they could not figure out how to work outside of their toolchain. I see it all the time with .NET and Java developers, if they are not in Visual Studios or Eclipse they don't know how to even compile their software. Both those ecosystems are fantastic and developers can be very productive, especial…

I think you are projecting your biases. A developer that has 10 years of experience solving problems, debugging though issues can learn faster the cool language of the day then a 1 year dev can learn the 10 years of experience.

Its not about learning the language. Take a Java developer who is used to Eclipse and tell them from now on they need to write Maven files directly and learn how to build and test from the CLI because thats how your CI works. Same thing with version control. I am always amazed at the number of development shops that still work by emailing around zip files with code in it, or places where the only place you can build software is on a developers workstation. There is so much more to software development then the language you use.

Re: We Only Hire the Trendiest (2016)

#62

Post by nsfyn55 »

Is it really the trendiness?

Here is what would be going through my mind...

> Why after investing 11 years in Mike did Microsoft decide to let Mike go?

People are tremendously expensive to a business. Losing 11 years of IP is a nightmare scenario. This would be a clear red flag for me as a hiring manager.

My second question would be...

> Does Mike's resume look like he's kept up on what's current? If not could that be why Microsoft let Mike go?

The only question I am asking when I hire someone is. Where can I put them on day one. If I can't see where a person fits in then I'm not going to hire them. The worst thing you can tell me in an interview is "I'm willing to learn". Great so is everyone else. What I want to hear is "This is the state of the market, this is what I know now, these are the things I should know, this is how I plan to know them" and "what do I need to know to meet your needs on day one"

>Mike has worked on systems that can handle multiple orders of magnitude more load, but his experience is, apparently, irrelevant.

No one really cares. I don't care if Mike was on the nasa team that sent men to the moon. Tremendous achievement, useless to me right now. I care about what he can do right now. Does Mike have the answer to the QPS problem right now? If he can why isn't he there right now pitching them the solution.

There is no earned comfort anymore. You don't stick with the company long enough to get the good parking spot. No one cares what you did yesterday they only care about what you can do today? If Mike is on board with these values and is keeping pace with the skill demands of the market then I don't think he'll have any problem finding a job at TrendCo or anywhere else. If Mike thinks he's owed something for the time he put in at Microsoft then I suspect he's in for a rough go.

Re: We Only Hire the Trendiest (2016)

#63

Post by nabnob »

throwaway1af wrote: post #47

> "who was tragically underemployed for years because of his low GPA in college. We declined to hire him and I was told that his low GPA meant that he couldn't be very smart" I need some advice related to this. Years ago, I started undergrad at a top school and had a full ride. Unfortunately, I fell ill, which lead me to fail most of my classes. After losing the scholarship, I dropped out, started a few companies, an…

Just leave your GPA off of your resume. I was surprised to read that in this article, my GPA wasn't great but I've never been turned down for a job because of it. In my experience, companies only ask about your transcript if you're a new college grad.

Re: We Only Hire the Trendiest (2016)

#64

Post by asdfman123 »

warent wrote: post #21
cjf4 wrote: post #3

>When I started programming, I heard a lot about how programmers are down to earth, not like those elitist folks who have uniforms involving suits and ties. You can even wear t-shirts to work! But if you think programmers aren't elitist, try wearing a suit and tie to an interview sometime. Indeed: http://web.archive.org/web/20140618142018/http://blog.42floo...

> Well, dude, no, actually you can overdress for an interview and you just did. Of course I didn’t say it. And we didn’t decline him based on what he decided to wear. We declined on him because he wasn’t a fit for us in many other ways. The suit was just the early give away. Nah. Let's keep ourselves honest. It was the suit; or, at the very least, it was what the suit represented--professionalism that separates priva…

I did my undergrad at Stanford and the whole Silicon Valley culture was just an enormous turnoff. I just can't do it. It strikes me as... total dumb BS that does not seem to understand it's total dumb BS. To be fair, that's probably tinted with the overly critical filter of an outsider.

In the enterprise world you are at least free to acknowledge that making profit for hyperwealthy private investors isn't your life's greatest calling.

Re: We Only Hire the Trendiest (2016)

#65

Post by hogFeast »

One story that I always remember is a company in financial services. They only hire Oxbridge. For decades, 95% of the senior staff went to Oxbridge. They were, according to themselves, the elite.

Unf, and maybe not surprisingly, they are infamous for blowing up every few years. You name the hot, new trend...they will be balls deep and a few years from total destruction.

After going "all-in" on Japan in 1989, they were feeling a bit sheepish and decided to do something extraordinary: hire a poor person. The guy they hired went to the local uni, very smart, and the definition of self-starter/independent thinker. Within three years, he was out. Hired instantly somewhere else, and went on to make tens of millions (retired in late-40s).

The point is: actual ability does not matter to 99% of companies. This guy was one of the most able employees possible, he could have made literally billions for his first employer but that didn't stop him getting canned because he was an independent thinker (despite only hiring from Oxbridge, this company is known for having a "group-think" culture...work that one out). You can definitely make money from this inefficiency - turning 0xers into 1xers - but most companies are actively choosing not to do this.

I know of another company in the same industry that hires front office staff out of a single pool that rotates through operations/sales/marketing/etc. Pretty much exclusively hire from non-targets, focus heavily on training/teamwork. They have acquired pretty much all of the competition local to me: they come in, fire all the Oxbridge guys, and move their teams in. In the 80s, they managed a few million. Now they manage half a trillion.

This model works...but try telling someone that went to an elite uni that they could hire someone with half the training, at half the cost, and get (at least) the same result...they will never believe that (and, unf, tech has almost the same dynamic as finance where some people believe that having a certain piece of paper means you are better at everything).

Re: We Only Hire the Trendiest (2016)

#66

Post by kjhrewopi »

traderjane wrote: post #37
cjf4 wrote: post #3

>When I started programming, I heard a lot about how programmers are down to earth, not like those elitist folks who have uniforms involving suits and ties. You can even wear t-shirts to work! But if you think programmers aren't elitist, try wearing a suit and tie to an interview sometime. Indeed: http://web.archive.org/web/20140618142018/http://blog.42floo...

A suit costs way more money than t shirt and jeans. And people will know if you only have one suit, and people can eyeball if you have a bad suit — it’s like an advertisement for how low class you are, and it is in fact embarrassing and reflects on your credibility for those who don’t know you. That’s not something you control. The casual look is as low a hurdle as you can make it. Complaining that you don’t walk in…

Funny you would mention Goldman Sachs.

https://www.cnbc.com/2019/03/05/suits-and-ties-now-optional-...

Also, you have too much faith in programmers being able to eyeball the quality of a suit.

Re: We Only Hire the Trendiest (2016)

#67

Post by lr »

warent wrote: post #21
cjf4 wrote: post #3

>When I started programming, I heard a lot about how programmers are down to earth, not like those elitist folks who have uniforms involving suits and ties. You can even wear t-shirts to work! But if you think programmers aren't elitist, try wearing a suit and tie to an interview sometime. Indeed: http://web.archive.org/web/20140618142018/http://blog.42floo...

> Well, dude, no, actually you can overdress for an interview and you just did. Of course I didn’t say it. And we didn’t decline him based on what he decided to wear. We declined on him because he wasn’t a fit for us in many other ways. The suit was just the early give away. Nah. Let's keep ourselves honest. It was the suit; or, at the very least, it was what the suit represented--professionalism that separates priva…

> Nah. Let's keep ourselves honest. It was the suit; or, at the very least, it was what the suit represented--professionalism that separates private, personal life from work life. Yuck. Who has time for that when you're trying to get rich off the next big exit? /s

That is so very well stated I want to highlight it! Thanks for putting it so succinctly.

Re: We Only Hire the Trendiest (2016)

#68

Post by jethro_tell »

SketchySeaBeast wrote: post #49
trevyn wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You should have a backchannel before you’re even in the system.

In that case you've already got a leg up and a faux pas or two will probably be forgiven.

this is why we have a diversity problem in tech, because we only hire people we know who came from our exact background.

Re: We Only Hire the Trendiest (2016)

#69

Post by toasterlovin »

bdcravens wrote: post #8
rb808 wrote: post #7

I worked on a big C# system with hundreds of windows servers, developed on Visual Studio etc. It was an awesome project and everything worked like clockwork. However there are very few projects using that technology so when I wanted to move I had trouble getting interviews. I'm now working with a very fashionable tech stack, its horrible, infrastructure is regularly broken, people can't trace problems easily, our fun…

There’s a lot of .NET jobs in boring fields like oil and gas - Houston has tons of them.

Yeah, but do they pay as much?

Re: We Only Hire the Trendiest (2016)

#70

Post by monknomo »

throwaway1af wrote: post #47

> "who was tragically underemployed for years because of his low GPA in college. We declined to hire him and I was told that his low GPA meant that he couldn't be very smart" I need some advice related to this. Years ago, I started undergrad at a top school and had a full ride. Unfortunately, I fell ill, which lead me to fail most of my classes. After losing the scholarship, I dropped out, started a few companies, an…

My advice would be to not volunteer your gpa or transcripts and to avoid companies that want them. Apart from government jobs I haven't found very many that need a transcript
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